[EdwinSm]

I may be behind the curve, but yesterday I saw, what was for me, a new addition to the list of "Sin Taxes" in a national news report.

After recent elections a coalition government is being formed and the programme proposal includes an increase in Sin Taxes, that is alcohol, tobacco products AND fuel for vehicles. [There has been a strong emphasis on ecological issues in the past election, with the Green Party the main gainer.]

Do you think that Vehicle taxes should be included in the list of "sin taxes"?
In light of the peak oil (dynamic) it might be a good move, and might help people accept it as an incentive to move away from fossil fuels.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EdwinSm', 'I') may be behind the curve, but yesterday I saw, what was for me, a new addition to the list of "Sin Taxes" in a national news report.

After recent elections a coalition government is being formed and the programme proposal includes an increase in Sin Taxes, that is alcohol, tobacco products AND fuel for vehicles. [There has been a strong emphasis on ecological issues in the past election, with the Green Party the main gainer.]

Do you think that Vehicle taxes should be included in the list of "sin taxes"?
In light of the peak oil (dynamic) it might be a good move, and might help people accept it as an incentive to move away from fossil fuels.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')o you think that Vehicle taxes should be included in the list of "sin taxes"?

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'F')uel is generally heavily taxed, but that is suppressing vehicle “use”, not simple ownership.

[Newfie]

Some good thoughts there.

[asg70]

CARBON tax, not sin tax.

[Fredrik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EdwinSm', 'T')here has been a strong emphasis on ecological issues in the past election, with the Green Party the main gainer.

[evilgenius]

Road usage would be ok, if it could be done without tracking where everybody went. Too much information about what people do, or that can be inferred about that from where they go, is a bad thing in the hands of any government. Governments are the political embodiment of the people. Since when have other people kept embarrassing or destructive knowledge to themselves? The very danger of that would curtail not just overtly aberrant behaviors, like people traveling to cheat on their spouses. It could cause people to come together around centers of thought that judge others for behaviors that have always been seen as merely eccentric or which are simply not part of what normal people choose to do. Shame is a powerful weapon. The current president is guilty of throwing it around in order to get what he wants, stirring up his base and solidifying them around certain issues. The way he does it is a lot like the people doing it because he does it as a result of his knowledge of what their opinions are, so that he can appeal to them. Imagine what the people themselves would do, if they had a more direct connection to the use of shame empowered by too much knowledge about the behavior of those around them.

Usage could be tracked by tracking battery levels. If a car's batteries were used for a non-traveling purpose, like powering a camping site, trailer or house, some sort of switch could be used to classify that use differently. Different uses could be classified almost like how different sorts of diesel fuel are taxed, according to what category they are in. While diesel is taxed at the pump, electricity could be taxed by amount of it put toward whatever category of use. The categories would have to be broad enough or, again, the wily nature of the people might step in and ruin the whole thing for everybody.

[EdwinSm]

Fredrik: Åboland

Thanks for the thoughts. I am not sure that I want to add fuel tax to the "sin tax list".

I realise that prices have to rise to drive people to more energy efficient vehicles, and personally I would love to have an ev. However, my driving now is quite limited and I guess that the energy consumption used in making a new car will be nowhere near the savings in fuel over keeping my existing petrol (gas) one. So the ecologically responsible move would be to keep the existing car until it mechanically needs replacement.

In the elections it was noted that the Green Party is primarily targeted at the urban university educated elite. As a result, its policies are often at a variance with the needs of the rural population. Eg getting people to switch to public transport is a good idea, but in sparsely populated areas this could be an extremely expensive option if the buses are driving around almost empty. [And don't get me started on the invasive species such as cormorants ]

[Subjectivist]

Who gets to pick which sins get taxed? In the past Alcohol and Tobacco and Gambling and in selected jurisdiction Prostitution have been popular choices but I think you could make a lot of money as a government with say an internet porn tax. All those 18 year old guys who can't get a date looking at something their parents tell them they should avoid would by a big source of income for Uncle Sam and State Government.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', 'W')ho gets to pick which sins get taxed? In the past Alcohol and Tobacco and Gambling and in selected jurisdiction Prostitution have been popular choices but I think you could make a lot of money as a government with say an internet porn tax. All those 18 year old guys who can't get a date looking at something their parents tell them they should avoid would by a big source of income for Uncle Sam and State Government.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', 'W')ho gets to pick which sins get taxed? In the past Alcohol and Tobacco and Gambling and in selected jurisdiction Prostitution have been popular choices but I think you could make a lot of money as a government with say an internet porn tax. All those 18 year old guys who can't get a date looking at something their parents tell them they should avoid would by a big source of income for Uncle Sam and State Government.

[JuanP]

Uruguay never had personal income taxes until a few years ago, less than a decade. We had Value Added Taxes (20%+) and Import Taxes on consumption instead, with everything getting taxed except basic needs like housing, medicine and medical services, education, and food. And some things, like cars, gasoline, and diesel have their own additional taxes, too, making them a lot more expensive than they are in the USA. I have always thought that a system that discourages consumption and encourages production by taxing purchases instead of income makes a lot of sense.

[REAL Green]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JuanP', 'I') have always thought that a system that discourages consumption and encourages production by taxing purchases instead of income makes a lot of sense.

[mousepad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JuanP', 'I') have always thought that a system that discourages consumption and encourages production by taxing purchases instead of income makes a lot of sense.

[JuanP]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JuanP', 'I') have always thought that a system that discourages consumption and encourages production by taxing purchases instead of income makes a lot of sense.

[REAL Green]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JuanP', 'T')he obvious answer is you produce to consume as needed and EXPORT the surplus, which makes the nation wealthier.

[mousepad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JuanP', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JuanP', 'I') have always thought that a system that discourages consumption and encourages production by taxing purchases instead of income makes a lot of sense.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')The best way is to reduce production. An easy way would be 20h work week, but of course it comes with some reduction in standard of living, like return to 1950, or so? Apparently nobody want's that. They all want more travel, more gadgets, more car, bigger house, better AC, imported foods, etc.

[JuanP]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')The best way is to reduce production. An easy way would be 20h work week, but of course it comes with some reduction in standard of living, like return to 1950, or so? Apparently nobody want's that. They all want more travel, more gadgets, more car, bigger house, better AC, imported foods, etc.