PeakOil is You
A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt 3
A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt 3
by Ibon » Thu 14 May 2020, 11:01:14
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'T')he catch 22 with human overshoot is that carrying capacity is extended through technology and the whole scale obliteration of natural ecosystems converted over to man made environments. That very technology that can mitigate the impacts of overshoot is the same technology that created the imbalance that enabled our population to bloom to almost 8 billion and our non discretionary consumption to reach decadence.
As William Catton put it in his pioneering work, “Overshoot,” we are no longer mere homo sapiens, with little impact on the Earth’s environment. We are now homo colossus. Technology and fossil fuels made us too colossal to endure.
"All the previous chapters have been aimed at enabling the reader to see why, with great reluctance and regret, I am compelled to doubt that we can confidently hope to avoid a serious `crash' as the focal human experience of the 21st century - envisioned also as our species having to pass through an ecological `bottleneck.'"
When Catton wrote Overshoot it was a warning and a prognosis that we cannot avoid the collapse. I think we have inched just a little bit further since then and we are now actually engaging in the consequences that will happen during the events that unfold during this collapse. And I do sincerely believe that therein lies the only remote possibility that we embed adaptations to eventually stay within some future carrying capacity which is fluid of course due to the degradation that will only extend further in this process.
On the other hand I look at those pastures 10 years ago where I removed the livestock and I see a hillside forested with some trees that have already in this short time reached 40 feet.
Nature is resilient and heals fast..... as long we we keep pockets of refuge habitat out of which nature can colonize former human landscapes.
Patiently awaiting the pathogens. Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
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Re: Wind & Solar Are Wrong Path Pt. 2
by REAL Green » Thu 14 May 2020, 12:09:40
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', ' ')I do sincerely believe that therein lies the only remote possibility that we embed adaptations to eventually stay within some future carrying capacity which is fluid of course due to the degradation that will only extend further in this process. Nature is resilient and heals fast..... as long we we keep pockets of refuge habitat out of which nature can colonize former human landscapes.
I like to look at this as decline, a process, and local. While the planet and human society is in general decline the failures are still mostly local. At least during our lifetime, the process could be one of general destructive change with localized failures. This will continue down to some level reached decades hence. The next generation may find a stable level and or further drops down. Collpase is potentially out there but very hard to define. It seems the harder we try to define it the more distant it becomes. This might be becuase growth and decline occur even in succession. Nodes are destroyed and new niches opened up. It is fluid with rebound.
realgreenadaptation.blog
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Re: Wind & Solar Are Wrong Path Pt. 2
by C8 » Thu 14 May 2020, 13:05:33
Ibon (and others), I have to tell you that I do not see this spiritualized sword of wisdom that you speak of as existing among very many today. All I see are people with no wisdom or spirituality who simply seek status, or people whose spirituality is based on the tribal views of we are holy and others are evil and you are commanded to have as many children as possible.
Even if we increase the carrying capacity, it seems like a pursuit of wealth and a tribal impulse to out-populate other ethnic groups will absorb all the surplus. In other words, I see greed and xenophobia as far more powerful forces than reason and enlightenment. As a father of two I come to this tentative conclusion with a very heavy heart.
So do I have any hope? Is there a realistic path out of this I can latch onto? I teach my kids every day that it is not circumstances that make your life happy or not, it is how you view things and how you react. But i am also realistic enough to know that really bad circumstances are pretty hard to deal with over time, even if you have a positive attitude.
Social media seems to promote hate among every group. I can remember when it was touted as bringing us together. Hate is a tough thing to live with every day. The news just focuses on the very worst aspects of human nature. Its hard to read the news and not feel a sense of disgust with humanity. Media in general seems to promote negative views and pessimism- not the foundations for discovering a spiritual life. Views turn to actions as groups go violent on each other. I feel tech is warping our collective minds and taking us more into the emotional and farther away from reason.
How long do we have here in the US before things get really bad? Is there a realistic chance of mankind turning this ship away from the iceberg? Thanks.
Even if we increase the carrying capacity, it seems like a pursuit of wealth and a tribal impulse to out-populate other ethnic groups will absorb all the surplus. In other words, I see greed and xenophobia as far more powerful forces than reason and enlightenment. As a father of two I come to this tentative conclusion with a very heavy heart.
So do I have any hope? Is there a realistic path out of this I can latch onto? I teach my kids every day that it is not circumstances that make your life happy or not, it is how you view things and how you react. But i am also realistic enough to know that really bad circumstances are pretty hard to deal with over time, even if you have a positive attitude.
Social media seems to promote hate among every group. I can remember when it was touted as bringing us together. Hate is a tough thing to live with every day. The news just focuses on the very worst aspects of human nature. Its hard to read the news and not feel a sense of disgust with humanity. Media in general seems to promote negative views and pessimism- not the foundations for discovering a spiritual life. Views turn to actions as groups go violent on each other. I feel tech is warping our collective minds and taking us more into the emotional and farther away from reason.
How long do we have here in the US before things get really bad? Is there a realistic chance of mankind turning this ship away from the iceberg? Thanks.
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Re: Wind & Solar Are Wrong Path Pt. 2
by Newfie » Thu 14 May 2020, 13:31:12
C8,
There are the techno questions and then the psychological ones.
China is living pretty much in harmony because of the Great Leap Forward that Mao enforced by sending the entire population through re-education camps where they were taught to trust no one, them selves included. The only thing that could be trusted was the state.
That the Chinese are now widely accepting the credit score program as a way of clamping down on fraud within their society is an evidence that we can have cohesive societies. We just have to learn to not trust anyone but the state and then totally rely upon the state to care for us. It is a natural evolution of the hive mentality. We all exist because of the state and must remain loyal to the state.
The Western equivalent of the Great Leap, the need to make everyone distrust everyone else, is fed by the excessive political rancor. It’s now more important to marry someone from your own party than from your own religion. This is in part because party has displaced religion for many. But this rancor is slow and not very effective.
There are still elements of individualism, freedom, free thought who do not follow the party line. And there are 2 parties, dictating a war between the competing factions. Yet the West is still under pressure to accept the Chinese big government solution, a single party with harmony adhering to the overloads.
Perhaps that is why the virus is so readily accepted and the lockdown is being perpetrated by the overloaded. This minor predator, given to us by the Chinese, is being used to accomplish in the West what Mao’s Great Leap Forward did in China. We cover our faces, etc his elicits a primal fear reaction, it is innate, It’s literally in our DNA. We are told to social distance, to stay away from family and friends, leaving us to listen to the state propaganda broadcasts (I.e.News). We are told it is an ongoing threat that will be with us forever. No more concerts, or masses, or funerals. We are to each be content with our role in the great machinery, wary of all around us who may have “THE DISEASE.”
There are the techno questions and then the psychological ones.
China is living pretty much in harmony because of the Great Leap Forward that Mao enforced by sending the entire population through re-education camps where they were taught to trust no one, them selves included. The only thing that could be trusted was the state.
That the Chinese are now widely accepting the credit score program as a way of clamping down on fraud within their society is an evidence that we can have cohesive societies. We just have to learn to not trust anyone but the state and then totally rely upon the state to care for us. It is a natural evolution of the hive mentality. We all exist because of the state and must remain loyal to the state.
The Western equivalent of the Great Leap, the need to make everyone distrust everyone else, is fed by the excessive political rancor. It’s now more important to marry someone from your own party than from your own religion. This is in part because party has displaced religion for many. But this rancor is slow and not very effective.
There are still elements of individualism, freedom, free thought who do not follow the party line. And there are 2 parties, dictating a war between the competing factions. Yet the West is still under pressure to accept the Chinese big government solution, a single party with harmony adhering to the overloads.
Perhaps that is why the virus is so readily accepted and the lockdown is being perpetrated by the overloaded. This minor predator, given to us by the Chinese, is being used to accomplish in the West what Mao’s Great Leap Forward did in China. We cover our faces, etc his elicits a primal fear reaction, it is innate, It’s literally in our DNA. We are told to social distance, to stay away from family and friends, leaving us to listen to the state propaganda broadcasts (I.e.News). We are told it is an ongoing threat that will be with us forever. No more concerts, or masses, or funerals. We are to each be content with our role in the great machinery, wary of all around us who may have “THE DISEASE.”
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Re: Wind & Solar Are Wrong Path Pt. 2
by Ibon » Thu 14 May 2020, 13:48:15
C8,
I look at the state of society in the USA as just right now perhaps dealing with the first cold drops of a new reality settling in. The acting out of aggression, the hate, the tribalism is coming from the most extreme anti-social members of society. They are most vocal on social media. In fact, channeling your rage through social media is the very symptom of being anti-social, not having organic community, friends and family with whom to interact. So there is a filter effect happening where what dominates is the most dysfunctional.
Best solution? Distance yourself from social media. The limited time you budget find sites like these and others where at least dialogue is happening even with strong divergent points of view.
I had a major realization years ago when I was in business constantly flying between the USA and Latin America. If occurred to me one day when I was at the gate to board a flight and I saw around 30 passengers herding around a TV looking at CNN. I had this insight that for many Americans organic small town community was totally replaced with community derived from media.
This was already 15 years ago I had that insight, that was before cell phones and the further penetration of digital media.
It is mostly toxic. Budget your use and content or it will fuck you up.
Surround yourself with awakened curious conscious compassionate folks with whom you can break bread and who can discuss nuanced issues that are not able to fit in white or black boxes. And most importantly, go for walks in the natural world. Look at the stars at night.
Digital media has made us more myopic than mice.
I look at the state of society in the USA as just right now perhaps dealing with the first cold drops of a new reality settling in. The acting out of aggression, the hate, the tribalism is coming from the most extreme anti-social members of society. They are most vocal on social media. In fact, channeling your rage through social media is the very symptom of being anti-social, not having organic community, friends and family with whom to interact. So there is a filter effect happening where what dominates is the most dysfunctional.
Best solution? Distance yourself from social media. The limited time you budget find sites like these and others where at least dialogue is happening even with strong divergent points of view.
I had a major realization years ago when I was in business constantly flying between the USA and Latin America. If occurred to me one day when I was at the gate to board a flight and I saw around 30 passengers herding around a TV looking at CNN. I had this insight that for many Americans organic small town community was totally replaced with community derived from media.
This was already 15 years ago I had that insight, that was before cell phones and the further penetration of digital media.
It is mostly toxic. Budget your use and content or it will fuck you up.
Surround yourself with awakened curious conscious compassionate folks with whom you can break bread and who can discuss nuanced issues that are not able to fit in white or black boxes. And most importantly, go for walks in the natural world. Look at the stars at night.
Digital media has made us more myopic than mice.
Patiently awaiting the pathogens. Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
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Ibon - Expert
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Re: Wind & Solar Are Wrong Path Pt. 2
by MonteQuest » Thu 14 May 2020, 13:54:53
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', ' ')If some of you are wondering how we are going to increase the death rate to get back to carrying capacity then we can see the clues in this pandemic. Every time this century (and probably the following one) that events create this situation, where some die if you do and some die if you don't, it will be the marginalized citizens in sub optimal habitat that will perish first. Just like in natural ecosystems. And our moral and ethical conundrum will be superceded by the principal that some die if you do and some die if you don't nature of the event.
I have pondered this question for years. What is the optimal situation for survival? Is it the poor who live closer to nature and derive much of their existence from the land? Or is it the well-heeled who live off technology? We, in the developed world, are not used to doing without, while most of the developing world doesn't even have electricity.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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But to answer your question, it's due to Demographic Transition. (Google it)
