[AirlinePilot]

Flew just west of Philly tonight on the way to Atlanta from Boston. Just south down the river from Phladelphia International saw a very large fire, looked like it was in one of the big refineries there. Can't find anything about it on line and the ATC controllers did not know anything about it. Even had a passenger ask us about it. Anyone heard or know anything about that? Just curious I guess. If you live in that area, Marcus Hook, or Chester DL you can probably see it. It was very large and very bright. Did not look like the typical gas flares.

[pip]

I haven't heard anything. Flares can be very large (several hundred feet) during an upset. That's a possibility.

[DantesPeak]

The first -

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')rude oil futures have broken from their rut to hit $US60 a barrel for the first time in two weeks, as a refinery fire in Louisiana inflamed supply fears.

Murphy Oil Corp said it shut down a diesel fuel unit at its 120,000-barrel-a-day Meraux refinery. The fire was in the refinery's diesel hydrotreater, which removes sulfur from fuel. Murphy said damage to the unit was minimal, but offered no estimate of when it might restart.

[Cyrus]

Notice, both were dealing with heavy, sour, crude..... 1+1=?

[Eli]

Oil is now above 60 in after hours trading because of the Bp fire in Texas.

What the heck is going on why are people so jumpy about a little fire in Texas?

[savethehumans]

Right you are, Cyrus!

U.S. refineries are trying to handle sour crude. U.S. refineries are finding that they CAN'T handle sour crude. Soon, most of the oil we'll be having shipped to us will be--sour crude!

Now, math was my worst subject back when I was a student. But even I can add up these points and get the sum of: TSHTF!

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cyrus', 'N')otice, both were dealing with heavy, sour, crude..... 1+1=?

[sol]

Are these the first tremors?? to let the Tsunami loose on the economic markets

I work for a fuel reseller and we now have trouble locating the stuff.

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', '-')- Exxon is reporting production declines
-- Shell is reporting production declines
-- BP "Beyond Petroleum" is trying to refine heavy crude and their plants keep exploding
-- Chevron "Human Energy" is running an ad campaign to let everyone know that we're running out of oil

[I_Like_Plants]

Very good point, we've been dependent not on oil, but on light sweet oil. Most of the oil being "banked on" as world supply is stuff our equipment is not set up to process.

[CARVER]

Could it also have something to do with these refineries running full steam 24/7, maybe it puts too much stress on the refinery (and the workers), and maybe there is no time for the required maintenance inspections (we'll do that when demand slows and prices drop, which is taking a long time).

But is it that we are paying a lot more attention to these things now, and have these refineries always been so..uh...fragile, or is this new?

(Two weeks ago a shell refinery 400.000 bpd was shut down for a week due to an external power disruption. So what would happen if we get blackouts, I would think these things have backup generators).

[FoxV]

this posses the question I've be curious about.

What is the "efficiency" of the whole oil production and refinery chain.

for that I mean, countries say they can produce so much but because of unforseen events (storms, sabotage, strikes, etc...) they can't.

for refineries, what percentage of their max can they refine in a year (after accidents, maintence, and storms/blackouts)

usually these issues are not a concern because everyone use to work with some extra capacity. But now that everyone is running flat out (with no slow down expected till next spring) nothing can compensate for normal problems. In the end this has the effect of shaving the top off of Hubbert's peak (that good ol' difference between theoritical and real results)

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CARVER', 'B')ut is it that we are paying a lot more attention to these things now, and have these refineries always been so..uh...fragile, or is this new?

[4StringSlinger]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', '-')- Exxon is reporting production declines
-- Shell is reporting production declines
-- BP "Beyond Petroleum" is trying to refine heavy crude and their plants keep exploding
-- Chevron "Human Energy" is running an ad campaign to let everyone know that we're running out of oil

[PeakOiler]

If one does a Google News search using keywords "refinery fires", one will find about 300+ hits. The fact that there are more accidents in some refineries seems somewhat coincidental at the current time. Or can some of it be explained by the hydrogenation process of heavy, sour crude? I guess more hydrogen is being used than in the past for processing the crude.
Can we expect more frequent explosions? Perhaps more of those profits needs to be spent on better equipment and re-fits...

[merecat]

I may be wrong but I suspect the fires are deliberate insurance jobs, the insurance money can be used to rebuild the plant to handle sour.

[EnviroEngr]

Now there's some finger wagging!

Following the money is such a sexy pursuit, don't ya think?


Cheap tongue-in-cheek, I know, but what's the sense of letting the damn elephant sh!t all over you in your own living room, I say. Unless, of course, you deserve it. For many, it's an evil game of Darwin's Revenge. For the rest, how far away is the nearest habitable planet?

Then again, what might it be like to start over as a single cell organism?




Everyone knows that fires are always an act of "god".

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('merecat', 'I') may be wrong but I suspect the fires are deliberate insurance jobs, the insurance money can be used to rebuild the plant to handle sour.

[skiwi]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_i ... D=10338317

"The marathon that refiners have been running for the past year and a half is far from finished, and their plants have already begun showing clear signs of exhaustion," said Frederic Lasserre of Paris-based SG Commodities in a note to clients.

"Refiners have pushed their plants so hard for so long that the now-fragile plants are experiencing increasingly frequent refinery fires, break-downs and -- in the US -- sustainable utilisation rates falling increasingly short of previous norms." Supply disruptions were not confined to the US refining sector. Across the Atlantic, BP shut in 120,000 barrels a day of crude at its North Sea Schiehallion oilfield after a fire in staff facilities.

[DantesPeak]

Seems like POers aren't the only ones suspicious of a series of refinery fires in a short time.

Also after saying damage to the Texas City refinery was minimal Friday, BP has now shut down operations for repairs. Plus public debate on the causes of the fire is not welcome.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U').S. looking for possible links in BP blasts
Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:24 PM BST

HOUSTON (Reuters) - U.S. government investigators began on Friday searching for possible links between a Thursday night explosion at BP's Texas City, Texas, refinery and a deadly March 23 blast, said the head of the U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board.

Two board investigators were expected to enter the residue hydrotreater where the Thursday explosion cut crude oil processing at the 460,000 barrel per day (bpd) capacity refinery by 70,000 bpd and gasoline output by 35,000 bpd.

"What we want to focus on is what we are doing and we don't want to get into a public debate," said BP's Hugh Depland.

The Texas City refinery, which is the third-largest in the United States, on Friday was in a "safety stand down" in which all refinery personnel take a break from normal duties to attend meetings on safety procedures, Depland said.