[Simon_R]

Interesting Subject, seems though, that no-one has defined what life is
Also there seems to be a confusion between the method of carrying information (Book/RNA) and the information itself, effectively what is information ?

[jedrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'C')omplexity alone is insufficient for life to proceed. Ability of system to process information is critical.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('REAL Green', '
') “Universality is “an intriguing mystery…Why do certain laws seem to emerge from complex systems, he asked, “almost regardless of the underlying mechanisms driving those systems at the microscopic level?” https://www.quantamagazine.org/beyond-t ... -20141015/

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jedrider', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'C')omplexity alone is insufficient for life to proceed. Ability of system to process information is critical.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Simon_R', 'I')nteresting Subject, seems though, that no-one has defined what life is
Also there seems to be a confusion between the method of carrying information (Book/RNA) and the information itself, effectively what is information ?

[Simon_R]

Hi Energy

While information can be incorporated into formulae, indeed Formulae are a form of information

The Formulae is information as is the following statements

'The world is flat'
'The world is Round'

given that, is true, how can we justify the statement that the information is there, you just need to discover it somehow.
Seems to me, without an observer there is no experiment or information.

[REAL Green]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Simon_R', 'S')eems to me, without an observer there is no experiment or information.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Simon_R', '
')Seems to me, without an observer there is no experiment or information.

[REAL Green]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Simon_R', '
')Seems to me, without an observer there is no experiment or information.

[Simon_R]

Hi Energy

To be fair the conundrum is way old than modern bright things, the old philosophical problem

If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one to hear it, does it make any noise.

we are now just saying if no one enters the forest has the tree fallen

I would argue that in any discussion like this experimentation is a flawed medium, as you are then simply playing a statistical game (ie if I conduct an experiment and it works, do I conduct more, and if so, surely that is an acknowledgement of the flawed nature of this method of proof)

Talking about making a quantum system make a choice is leading you dangerously close to a planned universe, paradoxically the very thing (I was told) that the multiverse theory was setup to counteract

Thanks

Simon

[jedrider]

Bell's Theorem
Basically, the non-locality of wave function collapse of entangled states, one of the corner stones of quantum theory.

I believe it basically 'proves' that even entangled particles do not have any pre-determined state that can be measured until their wave function collapses.

Non-locality is something that is hard to get one's head around after Einstein demonstrated that the speed of light is a constant limit.

What if the Universe is a giant synchronized metronome and that resolves the wave function collapse enigma? The metronome's function is to introduce quantum randomness, like shaking the numbers in a powerball jar. That gives a purely mechanical interpretation of quantum mechanics. It is something a post Renaissance scientist/engineer could build a model of.

Would that get around Bell's Theorem?

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Simon_R', 'H')i Energy

To be fair the conundrum is way old than modern bright things, the old philosophical problem

If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one to hear it, does it make any noise.

we are now just saying if no one enters the forest has the tree fallen

I would argue that in any discussion like this experimentation is a flawed medium, as you are then simply playing a statistical game (ie if I conduct an experiment and it works, do I conduct more, and if so, surely that is an acknowledgement of the flawed nature of this method of proof)

Talking about making a quantum system make a choice is leading you dangerously close to a planned universe, paradoxically the very thing (I was told) that the multiverse theory was setup to counteract

Thanks

Simon

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('REAL Green', '
')Great ideas to ponder, EU. I would say this as a non-scientist pondering things, there is a point where human duality can't go. There is a point where the part can't know the whole. This is where science stops and the metaphysical of spirituality starts or maybe better why they should be separate. Human meaning is a dualistic exercise of contemplating right and wrong of things not only with morality but in the reality of things. Reality is what it is. Even if reality is being many realities like a quantum view there is still an "isness" that can’t be reduced by science to decipher if this is the case. It is very apparent the more we know the more questions arise.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Simon_R', '
')Talking about making a quantum system make a choice is leading you dangerously close to a planned universe, paradoxically the very thing (I was told) that the multiverse theory was setup to counteract

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jedrider', 'B')ell's Theorem
Basically, the non-locality of wave function collapse of entangled states, one of the corner stones of quantum theory.

I believe it basically 'proves' that even entangled particles do not have any pre-determined state that can be measured until their wave function collapses.

Non-locality is something that is hard to get one's head around after Einstein demonstrated that the speed of light is a constant limit.

What if the Universe is a giant synchronized metronome and that resolves the wave function collapse enigma? The metronome's function is to introduce quantum randomness, like shaking the numbers in a powerball jar. That gives a purely mechanical interpretation of quantum mechanics. It is something a post Renaissance scientist/engineer could build a model of.

Would that get around Bell's Theorem?

[sparky]

.
for practical purpose ,
I hold to a Newtonian world
I take the earth to be flat , mostly
the planetary atomic theory suit me just fine
I use it as a Lego block concept of Chemistry
all politicians are twisted egomaniac , else they would be working for multinationals
( actually quite a few do )
constitutional rights as piece of paper which might , or not, be relevant when the cops want to bust me

all those beliefs are very basic and wrong in the marginal grand scheme of things
but the grand scheme of things has zilch relevance in everyday affairs

[EnergyUnlimited]

@sparky,
But contemplating the grand scheme gives you a sense of calm and freedom.
In face of expansion of Universe or gravitational collapse of stellar cores those politicians and multinationals you mention are truly meaningless entities.
Very much like you or me btw.

[sparky]

.
Yes , contemplating the grand Kosmos from the infinitely grand to the infinitely small
led on to ponder about the rather meaningless turmoil of the everyday
still even though we are a point , a mote we experience feelings , pain pleasure and perceive beauty
one must find in oneself the meaning of all this , the universe will not answers in our language
life is not a legacy , it's an experience

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdUq2opPY-Q

[Ibon]

As a child my friends and I would sleep under the stars on warm summer nights, all in our sleeping bags side by side in someones back yard looking up at the heavens. I remember back then and only being 12 years old we were already questioning infinity and the nature of the universe, the existence of god, and if there is an end of the universe there always has to be something on the other side.

Those warm summer nights germinated so much of my world view that I still carry with me to this day.

[REAL Green]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'A')s a child my friends and I would sleep under the stars on warm summer nights, all in our sleeping bags side by side in someones back yard looking up at the heavens. I remember back then and only being 12 years old we were already questioning infinity and the nature of the universe, the existence of god, and if there is an end of the universe there always has to be something on the other side.

Those warm summer nights germinated so much of my world view that I still carry with me to this day.