When most boomers were still in grade school, President Eisenhower made his famous farewell speech (prior to JFK's inaugeration) warning America about diminishing resources.
America didn't listen then.
Hubbert's peak report was published...in the 50's?
America yawned...while boomer kiddies sported Mickey Mouse ears and hoola-hooped in gay abandon.
Dick Cheney (or was it Rumsfeld?) made that famous speech back in 2004 (or was it 2003?) about the "American Way of Life" being non-negotiable! (meaning the great freedom to waste precious resources.)
A lot of people paid no attention to that...and re-elected Bush anyway.
The point is - with the exception of perhaps Norway, no free society on this planet has en masse licked the problem or even bothered to adequately prepare for it.
This means societies that wouldn't know what a boomer, a yuppie, yippie, hippie, or mugwump in drag looks like...have waltzed down the garden path just the same way.
(America just did it with savoir faire, don'tcha know...)
we be stylish, y'all.
Americans everywhere will be far too busy figuring out the great shift...and implementing it...to bother much with who is blaming whom for what.
It's a problem to solve. Not the crime of the century.
I have argued fairly recently in other places...that suburban existence has stolen childhood from suburban kids. By that I mean that children grow up now with no independent mobility. They are chauffeured everywhere, until they are literally old enough for a driver's license.
They are not permitted...by the structural layout of the communities they live in, to experience a gradual gaining of knowledge of their public realm in a natural and gradual way, a way in which children used to enter the greater social community around them.
However, this does not mean that suburban parents don't love their kids and want all that is best for them.
All it means is that where they live does not offer those options.
No-one chooses to live in suburbia because they think it will be BAD for their kids.
(You'd get a good slap pretty quick up the side of the head for presenting that argument to some soccer mom who works two jobs and makes 35 extra trips a week driving her kids all over creation.)
Would she welcome a break in that routine? Living somewhere in some community structured in such a way that her kids could walk or bike to the places they wish to go...and safely? You bet!
Attacking her for her SUV-guzzling will go exactly nowhere (for reason previously stated...you get my point?)
Hmmm...instant gratification abounds in our fair society.
Whereas it's a long slow gradual shift...in inches. Have we got time?
Until proven otherwise, I'm going to believe we do.
It starts with a public will.
Which turns into a political will.
Which slowly turns the rusty hinges.
Which gets the whole damned machine moving.
I believe that FDR back there in the dirty thirties had the idea. And look what happened.
You can well imagine how many pissed off people there were back in '29 after the great run on the bank...only to find the Gone Fishin' sign on the door.
We've been spoiled brats, no doubt.
Most of us have just been living our lives, doing the best we can.
When the bad crazies hit ya, and you wanna shake something loose -
go look at the future in a bright kid's eyes, or talk to some gramps or gram who remembers interesting things, or take the time to read an author who took the time to dig into this thing and who is capable of feeling some true compassion, offers insights and ideas, and not just hell in a handbasket.
You'll feel better if you do.
PeakOil is You
I'm young and I just found out about Peak Oil ...
Re: re: I'm young and I just found out about peak oil...
by LeonDion » Thu 28 Jul 2005, 18:05:24
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spudbuddy', 'I') agree with much (most) of what Kochevnick says...
and in the time to come we'll need a lot of cooler heads prevailing, no doubt.
As JH Kunstler says: This isn't the end of the world. Eventually, when it comes...it will be the end of a very wasteful economic system. That isn't necessarily a bad thing at all.
and in the time to come we'll need a lot of cooler heads prevailing, no doubt.
As JH Kunstler says: This isn't the end of the world. Eventually, when it comes...it will be the end of a very wasteful economic system. That isn't necessarily a bad thing at all.
Excellent post, brother! Someone here once said of the Doomers, that he thought they secretly wanted peak oil to wipe things out, and make a change. I totally understand where they are coming from.
I'm a GenX'er, and I've had the peak oil / peak resource issue stuck in the back of my head for most of my life. I never really got into the Boomer lifestyle, nor the "bling bling" life which the majority of the young in my area seem to be pursuing. (I live in one of the most Republican counties in the nation.) Very few young people have a value system outside of the corporatist mainstream to choose from. (Other than some right-wing religious whackadoo nonsense.)
For the past 5 or 10 years, I've seen the rise of fascism (a.k.a. "Corporatism") in America. That really freaked me out. I thought that a lot of the young were on the right track, since a lot of their music spoke out against the new fascism and the selling-out of the boomers. I tried working with some of them on projects to resist the growth of fascism, and discovered that they were ultimately very cynical. Very cynical.
A lot of the young have lost all hope in all systems, and all methods of resistance, including American "democracy", and have slid down the path of nihilism and criminality. Very much so. You have no idea how poorly they think of our generation and the ones before. The reports of the rise in street crime, deliquency, and random violence on the streets of London, is not surprising whatsoever. They embrace anarchy and are willing to defend their beliefs. (Which some are very capable of doing, I might add.)
I guess you could argue that the young could use the moderating influence of "cooler heads" in the older generations, but I won't. I think the older generations need to listen to the young and get off their asses and do something. It's not like we didn't see what was happening, right before our very eyes.
The media portrays everything the USA does as being some great heroic struggle, tainted by a few bad apples here and there. Any kid with Internet access can find out pretty quickly that that's not the way it really is. Yesterday's media's whitewashing becomes today's history, and the next thing you know, old farts write books like "The Greatest Generation." Sheee-it.
The oldsters have a great big ego investment in everything they've done, and they're not willing to budge. The young look at them and laugh. The generation coming up today have no illusions. To them, all that's left is "bling bling." After a cheap second-rate education, pressured to "succeed", and with little prospects outside of crummy service jobs or whorish sales and marketing gigs, what do you expect? They're young, and they look beautiful. So at least they have that to rub in the faces of their materialistic and hedonistic elders.
Why does corporatist America insist on being such arrogant pricks all the time any way? Why is business heralded as The Most Important Thing In Life? Is it really worth sacrificing everything to be number one? As if America were number one in anything anymore, other than the amount of debt we are in.
I totally understand how kochevnik's post can seem pretty arrogant to an aware young person of today, although a lot of what he said made perfect sense. I just don't think it's going to be accepted very easily. We're living in the aftermath of the most selfish and irresponsible generation(s) in history.
What we can do, is try to accept an alternative value system now, and do our best to impart the best of what we learn to our young. If they can't have the care-free life that their elders enjoyed, then they should at least enjoy ... shit ... I don't know how to end this sentence. I just don't know what to say.
George Bush, grandson of Hitler's banker, the guy who called America's richest 1% his "base", is president of the United States. His father armed terrorist organizations when he was president and head of the CIA. Prisons are one of the fastest growing industries in America. The Constitution has been torn to shreds. We're sending kids off to kill, and die, for oil in a god-damned desert in the Middle East. T.V. news lies all the time, because they're completely owned by big corporations. And some people voted for Bush because they want Armageddon.
What the f##k are we leaving to the next generation?
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LeonDion - Wood
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- Location: Kansas, USA
by spudbuddy » Fri 29 Jul 2005, 13:43:50
"Why does corporatist America insist on being such arrogant pricks all the time any way? Why is business heralded as The Most Important Thing In Life? Is it really worth sacrificing everything to be number one? As if America were number one in anything anymore, other than the amount of debt we are in. "
Excellent post, yourself.
Corporate America snuck into the Capitol and started messing with the constitution a long time ago. This is nothing new...the biggest thing that's changed in the past 3 decades is the power that has been transferred to them. (I think a lot of folks were too busy to notice.)
But when you begin to understand that a corporation is protected under law as if it was a person (kinda creepy) and that it owes no allegiance to the nation....(only to itself, and to the stockholders) then it follows that what it does is not good for America, Americans, or any social order.
They can argue until they're blue in the face (Republican red, actually) that Big business, BIGGER business, and BIGGEST BUSINESS is good for America...I'm never going to believe them.
Consider:
If Globalism was largely a corporate invention - and if the originators of the game plan were American corporate entities, then it follows that all their blather and rhetoric about competing globally betrays their own game plan entirely. This was never good for people, period.
I browsed a Wal*mart site a while back, and watched an animated map that represented their growth in America...going all the way back to the first store in Arkansas.
As the years went by, little red dots showed up on the map, representing new stores. At first, they were centered in the southern midwest.
Then they extended across the sunbelt. Finally they swooped up into the northeast and down the west coast.
By the turn of the millenium, states like Tennessee were solid red.
I was struck by this graphic....it was like watching a disease spread. Like measles, small pox, bubonic plague.
When you consider that each and every one of these red dots represents wealth sucked out of a community and funneled back to head office, then it becomes clear what the game plan is.
It is a parasite, absolutely.
Now...extend that on a global basis.
Using whatever government sanctions necessary, including the IMF, World Bank, World Trade Organization, NAFTA, GATT, and all the rest of them...the ultimate fantasy, and object of the game is to do this to the entire planet.
These are fine, upstanding Americans.
(the rhetoric is entirely mine.)
These are actually pretty scary people...who would love nothing more than to see us all bicker and bitch at each other...inter-generational, inter-racial, cross-gender, class-consciously, and with great gusto!
While they perform their shell game (it's a cute trick.)
I try to be a bit more of a human sometimes, than a thinker. I find that good for the soul. (the missus teaches me as best she can.)
What I mean is this:
That franchised conformity stifles the human spirit. Period.
Sometimes what your eyes see, what your ears hear, and what your heart intuitively tells you...is exactly what the picture is.
Somehow we morphed into a society where the worship of wealth became our utimate act of faith. This is ridiculous.
When the solution to the problem becomes getting so damned stinking rich that it can't touch you, you're beat.
(there just isn't enough to go around.) Never was.
Once upon a time in America, there didn't need to be.
Debt?
(Now what if we all grew long hair and donned robes and went into those temples of finance and just kicked the tables over?)
I mean...based on the new faith, that's where the real worship is going on.
And finally, if anything I say in here betrays my age, I don't really give a f**k.
Main reason being....after spending most of my life as a starving artist, I never got to sit down at the table and partake of the goodies anyhow.
More or less because I didn't want to.
So I'm not sure I can't identify a little bit with the hordes of young people who won't be invited to the party, either.
It was a lousy party. It got out of hand. Someone shoulda called the cops.
However much we wasted, we've got a lot left.
Perhaps we'll use it wisely. I hope so.
Excellent post, yourself.
Corporate America snuck into the Capitol and started messing with the constitution a long time ago. This is nothing new...the biggest thing that's changed in the past 3 decades is the power that has been transferred to them. (I think a lot of folks were too busy to notice.)
But when you begin to understand that a corporation is protected under law as if it was a person (kinda creepy) and that it owes no allegiance to the nation....(only to itself, and to the stockholders) then it follows that what it does is not good for America, Americans, or any social order.
They can argue until they're blue in the face (Republican red, actually) that Big business, BIGGER business, and BIGGEST BUSINESS is good for America...I'm never going to believe them.
Consider:
If Globalism was largely a corporate invention - and if the originators of the game plan were American corporate entities, then it follows that all their blather and rhetoric about competing globally betrays their own game plan entirely. This was never good for people, period.
I browsed a Wal*mart site a while back, and watched an animated map that represented their growth in America...going all the way back to the first store in Arkansas.
As the years went by, little red dots showed up on the map, representing new stores. At first, they were centered in the southern midwest.
Then they extended across the sunbelt. Finally they swooped up into the northeast and down the west coast.
By the turn of the millenium, states like Tennessee were solid red.
I was struck by this graphic....it was like watching a disease spread. Like measles, small pox, bubonic plague.
When you consider that each and every one of these red dots represents wealth sucked out of a community and funneled back to head office, then it becomes clear what the game plan is.
It is a parasite, absolutely.
Now...extend that on a global basis.
Using whatever government sanctions necessary, including the IMF, World Bank, World Trade Organization, NAFTA, GATT, and all the rest of them...the ultimate fantasy, and object of the game is to do this to the entire planet.
These are fine, upstanding Americans.
(the rhetoric is entirely mine.)
These are actually pretty scary people...who would love nothing more than to see us all bicker and bitch at each other...inter-generational, inter-racial, cross-gender, class-consciously, and with great gusto!
While they perform their shell game (it's a cute trick.)
I try to be a bit more of a human sometimes, than a thinker. I find that good for the soul. (the missus teaches me as best she can.)
What I mean is this:
That franchised conformity stifles the human spirit. Period.
Sometimes what your eyes see, what your ears hear, and what your heart intuitively tells you...is exactly what the picture is.
Somehow we morphed into a society where the worship of wealth became our utimate act of faith. This is ridiculous.
When the solution to the problem becomes getting so damned stinking rich that it can't touch you, you're beat.
(there just isn't enough to go around.) Never was.
Once upon a time in America, there didn't need to be.
Debt?
(Now what if we all grew long hair and donned robes and went into those temples of finance and just kicked the tables over?)
I mean...based on the new faith, that's where the real worship is going on.
And finally, if anything I say in here betrays my age, I don't really give a f**k.
Main reason being....after spending most of my life as a starving artist, I never got to sit down at the table and partake of the goodies anyhow.
More or less because I didn't want to.
So I'm not sure I can't identify a little bit with the hordes of young people who won't be invited to the party, either.
It was a lousy party. It got out of hand. Someone shoulda called the cops.
However much we wasted, we've got a lot left.
Perhaps we'll use it wisely. I hope so.
-
spudbuddy - Peat
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Thu 28 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
by LeonDion » Fri 29 Jul 2005, 14:27:08
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spudbuddy', '
')Debt?
(Now what if we all grew long hair and donned robes and went into those temples of finance and just kicked the tables over?)
I mean...based on the new faith, that's where the real worship is going on.
')Debt?
(Now what if we all grew long hair and donned robes and went into those temples of finance and just kicked the tables over?)
I mean...based on the new faith, that's where the real worship is going on.
I'm beginnning to think that's the plan. (Shhhhh. Don't let the asians figure out.)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spudbuddy', '
')So I'm not sure I can't identify a little bit with the hordes of young people who won't be invited to the party, either.
It was a lousy party. It got out of hand. Someone shoulda called the cops.
HA!
THAT's frikkin' hilarious! I love the way you put that.
And I totally agree with pretty much your whole post. Wish I could say I was an artist too, but I did my fair share of starving outside the gates while the party wore on.
Good to meet you, friend. Nice to know that when TSHTF, there's gonna be cool-headed folk ready [?] for the crash.
Peace out!
-
LeonDion - Wood
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Thu 21 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: Kansas, USA
by LeonDion » Fri 29 Jul 2005, 16:24:48
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spudbuddy', '(')there just isn't enough to go around.)
![[smilie=llorar.gif]](https://udev.peakoil.com/forums/images/smilies/llorar.gif "llorar")
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spudbuddy', 'N')ever was.
![[smilie=crybaby2.gif]](https://udev.peakoil.com/forums/images/smilies/crybaby2.gif "crybaby2")
how right you are there.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spudbuddy', 'O')nce upon a time in America, there didn't need to be.
Didn't need
![[smilie=icon_shaking.gif]](https://udev.peakoil.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_shaking.gif "icon_shaking"){kind=icon}
to be? lots of people have gone without through this county's history.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spudbuddy', '
')Debt?
(Now what if we all grew long hair and donned robes and went into those temples of finance and just kicked the tables over?)
I mean...based on the new faith, that's where the real worship is going on.
It would seem the only prudent choice. Based on the economics of the situation as they seem to be emerging, fundamental restructuring may be in order. That could have unintended consequences, however. If reformation is not possible, what would replace it?