[vtsnowedin]

I have watched a few of the votes tonight all 53 -47 GOP wins. I don't see any movement of the 20 Republicans the Dems need to get Trump removed. Evidence aside they don't want to see a Pence presidency or risk having Pence also go down throwing the presidency to Pelosie. So we are going to get a lot of huffing and puffing for about two weeks and then it will be back to the 2020 campaign trail.
I'm going to watch pay per view movies for the duration rather then listen to the farce.

[Cog]

If the House did not have evidence for impeachment, then they should have gone to court to obtain such evidence. The Senate is not compelled to do what the House failed to do.

Don't bring articles of impeachment over matters that are not a crime.

[Cog]

I've watched the trial off and on all day. As VT said, there are better things to do. There is no crime alleged here. What is the point of this exercise?

[Cog]

The Democrat's basically wasted the day by trying to introduce Amendments to Mitch McConnell rules on how this Senate trial will proceed. All of the Democrat amendments were defeated on a party line vote. They even tried to give the chief justice the ability to pick who would be a witnesses. That one was particularly laughable as Roberts wouldn't ever want that power.

Democrats now get 24 hours of floor time to present their evidence and then Trump's lawyers get 24 hours to rebut. I doubt whether a single witness will be called given the Republican solidarity in the voting so far. Collins did vote with Dems on one issue but she was the only one to break ranks.

[jedrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')he Democrat's basically wasted the day by trying to introduce Amendments to Mitch McConnell rules on how this Senate trial will proceed. All of the Democrat amendments were defeated on a party line vote. They even tried to give the chief justice the ability to pick who would be a witnesses. That one was particularly laughable as Roberts wouldn't ever want that power.

Democrats now get 24 hours of floor time to present their evidence and then Trump's lawyers get 24 hours to rebut. I doubt whether a single witness will be called given the Republican solidarity in the voting so far. Collins did vote with Dems on one issue but she was the only one to break ranks.

[Cog]

Is it just now occurring to you that impeachment is a purely political process?

[jedrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I')s it just now occurring to you that impeachment is a purely political process?

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jedrider', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I')s it just now occurring to you that impeachment is a purely political process?

[Newfie]

Cog,

There is much threat of that. Or to put it another way, we effectively have that already, the rulers are the ones that pull the strings.

For example when O was in at first he had both the house and senate. But they didn’t get much done, too busy infighting and splitting the spoils. R’s are no different.

Trump did good by busting up the mob in the FBI/Justice Department, but I’m not sure they were politically aligned. The more I loo at Comeys actions what is consistent is that he was trying to cow the likely President, be it Hillary or Donald.

That’s the problem we have, no one is truly in charge. The economy is running itself and it is mindless.

[jedrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'T')he more I loo at Comeys actions what is consistent is that he was trying to cow the likely President, be it Hillary or Donald.

[Cog]

I'll be listening to the Trump lawyer defense today, Monday and Tuesday.

On the two charges of Abuse of Power and obstruction of Congress.

Regarding obstruction of congress. The executive branch is not compelled to cooperate with Congress on an investigation. If Congress wants documents and witnesses they can appeal to the judicial branch to compel this. The House said they didn't have time to do this and the president needed to be impeached right away. Sorry folks, executive privilege is a real thing and most presidents have used it for internal communications. Not a crime to invoke executive privilege.

Abuse of Power. Is it legitimate to investigate corruption of an American citizen with a foreign power before you release foreign aid? Just because Joe Biden is now running for president doesn't give you an immunity shield from being investigated. Didn't we just go through this nut roll with Donald Trump? The FBI was investigating Trump even before the general election. Ultimately SC Mueller concluded that NO American colluded with, conspired with, or cooperated with Russia to affect the outcome of the 2016 election. Are the Dems saying that these investigations into then candidate Donald Trump were wrong? LOL

[Subjectivist]

I listened to all but the last ten minutes today, got interrupted and when I came back it was over.

I think they made a solid case that the House didn't follow standar House proceedures and that the offer for the President to send a representative was a last minute fig leaf so the D could claim they were fair after they had reached their conclusions.

When CSPAN started interviewing one D politician after another I turned it off.

[dissident]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I')'ll be listening to the Trump lawyer defense today, Monday and Tuesday.

On the two charges of Abuse of Power and obstruction of Congress.

Regarding obstruction of congress. The executive branch is not compelled to cooperate with Congress on an investigation. If Congress wants documents and witnesses they can appeal to the judicial branch to compel this. The House said they didn't have time to do this and the president needed to be impeached right away. Sorry folks, executive privilege is a real thing and most presidents have used it for internal communications. Not a crime to invoke executive privilege.

Abuse of Power. Is it legitimate to investigate corruption of an American citizen with a foreign power before you release foreign aid? Just because Joe Biden is now running for president doesn't give you an immunity shield from being investigated. Didn't we just go through this nut roll with Donald Trump? The FBI was investigating Trump even before the general election. Ultimately SC Mueller concluded that NO American colluded with, conspired with, or cooperated with Russia to affect the outcome of the 2016 election. Are the Dems saying that these investigations into then candidate Donald Trump were wrong? LOL

[jedrider]

So, the basic points are that 1. What Trump did was not right and 2. What he did merits removal from office. I think that is all to be determined in this Senate trial. Of course, saying it is the Democrats fault is kind of ridiculous IMO, but when all one can do is stretch and contradict the facts, well, then I guess that is to be expected.

What is interesting is Bolton now. The guy is a crazy war hawk. However, compared to a crazy narcissist, maybe, he will crack this all open for us.

Bolton bombshell implicates Bill Barr in Trump’s corruption with China and Turkey
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/01/bolton-bombshell-implicates-bill-barr-in-trumps-corruption-with-china-and-turkey-report/

[Cog]

You want to call Bolton over a leaked document, by people who haven't read it, from sources that are anonymous? LOL ok. The House Dems could have subpoenaed Bolton months ago and refused.

Funny how the Democrat party, a few months ago, thought Bolton was Satan incarnate and now think he is the resistance's only hope.

[Cog]

Dershowitz, an attorney for Donald Trump, and a liberal Democrat, argues that the impeachment articles presented by the House are unconstitutional. About an hour but a brilliant history lesson on the law.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqmhfyH09jM

[jedrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'D')ershowitz, an attorney for Donald Trump, and a liberal Democrat, argues that the impeachment articles presented by the House are unconstitutional. About an hour but a brilliant history lesson on the law.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqmhfyH09jM

[Cog]

In the American legal system, the prosecution bears the burden to prove guilt. The president, like anyone else, has the presumption of innocence.

[asg70]

The president, if nothing else, has been caught in countless lies, many of which revolving around the details of this case (like denying association with Lev Parnas). An innocent man does not lie to protect himself. If Trump actually had to make a statement under oath he'd perjure himself almost instantly. That's the class of politician the GOP are going to the mat to defend.

[jedrider]

The deep electoral roots of the Senate's impeachment standoff
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/28/politics/impeachment-polarization-voting-patterns-for-senate-president/index.html

No firewall, so you can read it. A very good explanation of the origin of the rigid partisanship that Trump and O'Connell are enforcing.

Welcome to the divided states of America. No civil war, but plenty of discord.