[jedrider]

The significance of the impeachment is Trump is guilty. Now, the histrionics will be in the Senate. The Nancy Pelosi withholding of the articles seems like some gamesmanship that Republicans started by withholding votes on Supreme Court candidates when Democrats propose the candidate.

All very interesting to see how a government implodes in slow motion. I'm not sure what will come out on the other end, but certainly, consensus may be gone forever.

[Cog]

Guilty before trial? I hope your law school refunds your tuition because you were surely defrauded. The Senate trial will determine guilt or innocence. The House impeachment articles are an accusation, nothing more.

[Newfie]

Trump is far from ignorant. He is inarticulate and inflammatory. Those get confused with ignorance.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'I') doubt very much Trump is "ignorant". He made tens of millions into a billion, probably has lost and made that much a few times. He runs scads of companies and was able to win the Presidency against all odds. He has put China on its heals (albeit at a cost to the US) which was needed) and has told the UN to go get stuffed (which was also needed). He may come off as someone a bit rough around the edges but don't think that doesn't mean he is extremely sharp and knows what he is doing. His superpower may be that the left woefully underestimates him.

[Newfie]

Ibon,
So then the D’s are the smart ones?

Trump has been far less militaristic than Obama or Hillary. He is taking a lot of heat for trying to disengage from foreign interventions.

And it’s getting pretty hard to deny that the DOJ/FBI suffered massive corruption which Trump is exposing. That was the work of the “smart” ones?

I know that the country is polarized but I really draw back from making distinctions such as you did above. This starts to lean towards the kind of propaganda where you dehumanize you’re enemy, which permits the killing fields.

I know that’s not what you intended, but it is a consequence of that logic.

[Cog]

People who live in the "intellectual" centers on the east and west coast dismissively refer to the rest of us in fly-over land as ignorant hayseeds who don't know what is best for us. Those of us who do live in fly-over land, resent the implication that we are somehow inferior to the rest of self-declared "intellectual" class and we responded in our deplorable fashion by rejecting your candidate.

Given the preview of the 2020 election so far, I see the Democrat party still has not learned why they lost in 2016.

[evilgenius]

What I don't get is how the people on the very site which ought to see just where Trump has broken trust with the United States, seem overwhelmingly in favor of his position. Do you not get that peak oil is the foundation of part of what Trump has betrayed. I'm not talking some fool notion that peak oil will work itself out in one season, like so many think, when they talk about everything falling apart so quickly. I'm talking about the strategic interests of the country. When the peak hits, and it will, if there is no replacement energy provision, then the US will need to be in a certain strategic position. All these wars the US has been fighting over the last several decades are part of that. The Ukraine is part of that. When the US eventually faces Russia, in whose direction these wars have been taking it, the Ukraine will be pivotally important. If you can't see that, then please just think about it.

Trump has not only been brazen when it comes to the Ukraine. It's just that what he did there actually crossed a line. He worked against the interests of the US, in order to further his re-election chances. In other areas, such as his anti-globalization stance, he has been equally brazen. But, there, he has a real argument that he is seeking what is best for the country. We have to trust him on that one. It's one of those things where nothing about what someone in charge is doing makes the least bit of sense, but then you can find that they had a plan. When things work out, in those situations, they usually can't talk too much about the reasoning behind what they were doing when they were doing it, or it might have worked against them.

I have to give him time. I have, also, to say that I do not believe that he actually does have a plan. I believe he is simply pandering to the rust belt segment of his base, who pine for lost job sectors. When the country would be best served by someone who came along and stuck a pin in the balloon that is forming over educating people to work in the last paradigm, not the high tech one, instead he panders to those disaffected by the changes that high tech has wrought. We do not produce enough highly specialized people who are ready to work in the workplaces of the future. Instead of fixing that, Trump wants to make those who belong to the old order happy. Additionally, he could be getting ahead of the basic income idea and turning it into a set of things designed to handle the very people he seems to be speaking to, and put a conservative shape upon it.

In other words, he could be the first conservative to be brave enough to change the dynamic that has been going on over education, where the people are made deliberately dumb. This works for conservatives. It helps them get elected. They only have to point out this or that list of commonly held talking points. A nation of reasoning minds is harder to get to come with you so easily. Changes that spread opportunity around a little more might have to actually take place, if that were the case. People would have to see what was in it for them rather than just keep taking satisfaction from the words they heard concerning one social issue or another.

It looks more like Trump is just into pumping up the national debt in order to keep the economy going strong. He hasn't got anything to say about facing the future, except to tout his space force. Is he just another of those who believe that the US military is best used in order to keep dollar hegemony intact? Meanwhile, the country needs changes that someone like him, who appears to be a loose wheel that nobody wants to stop, could probably have some success with. The country needs to move into the 21st Century, in many respects. If he really wants to get way ahead, like he said about the space force, then he might consider trying to get those parts of it to the 22nd Century far ahead of those with whom they have to deal rather than to try to go backwards so fast.

[Newfie]

Evil,

While much of what you say has merit you are missing half the picture.

First recall that Trump was elected in a forced choice run off with Hillary. Hillary was promising to be a continuation of the Obama presidency. And she insulted and ignored the very people she was asking to vote for her. In her hubris she asked an audience “Why aren’t I 50 points ahead?” Why indeed, and why not ask that of yourself?

Now we have the situation where the D’s have claimed Russian interference, to be proved my Mueller. Except that didn’t happen. Instead we have the IG proving the FBI/DOJ with gross incompetence, as a minimum, with a more forceful investigation ongoing.

Then we have the Afghanistan Papers showing that successive administrations have lied to us. And Trump is trying to get us out of these foreign entanglements while not starting new ones.

So looking from that perspective it’s no wonder many folks support Trump IN COMPARISON TO MAIN STREAM DEMOCRATS.

One needs to reflect back upon the above examples of how the previous administrations (both D and R) have broken trust with the American people.

So yeah Trump is a bull in a China shop, but he is a break from the last line of corruption. And that’s a breath of fresh air.
Mad a country we should be able to do better, but the political parties seem to have it all screwed up.

[Plantagenet]

Nancy Pelosi is refusing do her duty and send the articles of impeachment to the Senate because she is demanding a quid pro quo from the Senate first.

Can we impeach Nancy Pelosi for that?

Cheers!

[evilgenius]

Whatever he does that goes too far, you don't get to take that back. That's the only problem with someone who comes off as an enemy of the state in such a way. You'd dismiss him, as quickly as any corporation would its own executives, who acted so willfully outside of what was best for the corporation. But you can't dismiss him so easily, using only half measures. This one is too arrogant for half measures. He doesn't get subtlety, nor innuendo. What have people got left?

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'I')bon,
So then the D’s are the smart ones?

.

[Ibon]

I am arriving at the end point of my involvement with this site. I have almost no more respect for the vast majority of posters here

Let's face it, this site has acted as a filter since years with the only ones left posting being those that require some twisted sort of ersatz social digital contact to vent their positions.

Most of you sorely lack organic community...... it is so obvious.

Enough said.

The level of stupidity demonstrated here on this site................... no words left.

[Cog]

See you tomorrow Ibon.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'W')hatever he does that goes too far, you don't get to take that back. That's the only problem with someone who comes off as an enemy of the state in such a way. You'd dismiss him, as quickly as any corporation would its own executives, who acted so willfully outside of what was best for the corporation. But you can't dismiss him so easily, using only half measures. This one is too arrogant for half measures. He doesn't get subtlety, nor innuendo. What have people got left?

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'I')bon,
So then the D’s are the smart ones?

.

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'W')hatever he does that goes too far, you don't get to take that back. That's the only problem with someone who comes off as an enemy of the state in such a way. You'd dismiss him, as quickly as any corporation would its own executives, who acted so willfully outside of what was best for the corporation. But you can't dismiss him so easily, using only half measures. This one is too arrogant for half measures. He doesn't get subtlety, nor innuendo. What have people got left?

[Cog]

The Constitution specifies what are impeachable offenses. That Trump offends people, nations, and cultures is not an impeachable offense. We have elections for that sort of thing.

[Newfie]

Evil genius wrote:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')
That's simply not true. Obama, being an ex-president, is as thoroughly removed from office as conviction upon impeachment would be for Trump. You have to limit the potential damage.

[jedrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'P')eople who live in the "intellectual" centers on the east and west coast dismissively refer to the rest of us in fly-over land as ignorant hayseeds who don't know what is best for us. Those of us who do live in fly-over land, resent the implication that we are somehow inferior to the rest of self-declared "intellectual" class and we responded in our deplorable fashion by rejecting your candidate.

Given the preview of the 2020 election so far, I see the Democrat party still has not learned why they lost in 2016.

[jedrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'G')uilty before trial? I hope your law school refunds your tuition because you were surely defrauded. The Senate trial will determine guilt or innocence. The House impeachment articles are an accusation, nothing more.