[Newfie]

Some quotes to get started.

“If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all.” —Thomas Jefferson, 1789

“Nothing could be more ill-judged than that intolerant spirit which has, at all times, characterized political parties.” —Alexander Hamilton, 1787

“The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissention … is itself a frightful despotism … sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.” —George Washington

“… When the right and capacity to do all is given to any authority, whether it be called people or king, democracy or aristocracy, monarchy or a republic, I say: the germ of tyranny is there. …” —Alexis de Tocqueville, “Tyranny of the Majority”

[The_Toecutter]

In the U.S., outside of a small series of wedge issues that each effect only minorities of the population, issues seemingly picked to divide and conquer an ever increasingly irate, hopeless, and impoverished public, there is no difference between the two parties.

The Democrats and Republicans are both capitalistic, right-wing, authoritarian, fascistic, bigoted, corporatist, war-mongering, control freak parties with nothing of any real substance between them. The only way to tell the difference between them is which groups they target for discrimination against. The Democrats like to discriminate against heterosexual white males and Christians and the Republicans like to discriminate against non-whites, LGBTQs, foreigners, non-Christians, women and the poor. No matter which party is in power, the consolidation of wealth into increasingly fewer hands at the expense of the rest of society, the militarized police state, the forever wars, the coddling of Wall Street, the endless purchasing of laws and policy by K-street lobbyists, the increasingly bloated size of government, the endless deficit spending and fiat money printing, the unconstitutional industrial-scale surveillance of everyone, the declining living standards for the common person, the unaccountable nature of the Deep State, the march towards global ecocide, all continues unchecked no matter how many Americans become frustrated and angry at it all. The American people are then force-fed the belief that the "moderate" or "centrist" political stance is somehow in the middle of this very narrow and extreme set of ideologies presented by the Democrats and Republicans, and that anyone who falls outside of it is an extremist of sorts, even though indeed the composite center of the views of the American people fall far outside of this narrow range of ideology.

The "parties"(if one can honestly claim they are actually two parties and not pretending to be such) also use their clout to keep alternative voices out of the debates and off of the ballots, then expect us to believe that this is somehow a fair system and that we should just go on and accept whatever results we get after they've filtered and vetted all of the processes that determine our present and future. All of this filtering and vetting is then controlled by people who are unelected and are shielded from any and all liability for their actions while they pretend that we get we get the policy we vote for and somehow that makes this all legitimate, ethical or just. Left unspoken is what is often a single digit approval rating in Congress and a rapidly declining approval of and growing disdain for America's leading governing institutions.

George Washington was against political parties in the U.S. for a valid reason. The American people have been stripped of the right to self determination, while at the same time they are being looted to fund this theft then gas-lighted and told that this system and its policy are the result of their choices. And when any of the American people object, the intelligence community puts them on lists and labels them domestic extremists or potential terrorists.

[Newfie]

Agreed. I’ve been reading an abbreviated American History on TruthDig. It’s pretty good, has some fresh perspectives. It traces how this developed through the years with the LBJ/Nixon era setting up the current situation. I don’t see much chance out of it without some significant reform and a constitutional amendment.

However no one seems to be talking about it, what such an amendment would look like.

[Ibon]

I have lived in several small countries, some rich, some poor, but they all shared some important characteristics somehow relevant to what ails the political system in the US currently. Switzerland and Panama where I lived both have populations under 8 million people. Both countries from border to border is under 6 hundred miles.

Small countries are not global powers.
Small countries do not spend a significant part of their GDP on the military.
Small countries tend to become provincial in the issues that dominate political discourse.
Small countries tend to have vibrant mom and pop industries and a lack of corporate influence dominating economic life. You do not see faceless boulevards of chain stores.
Cultural identity in small countries is not burdened with exceptionalism

The USA political system is currently a huge juggernaut of special interests all jockeying for power.

I know this is not popular but the best solution to solve the political impasse of the USA is to break the country apart into several autonomous separate nations.

Bust it up.

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'I') don’t see much chance out of it without some significant reform

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', 'I')n the U.S., outside of a small series of wedge issues that each effect only minorities of the population, issues seemingly picked to divide and conquer an ever increasingly irate, hopeless, and impoverished public, there is no difference between the two parties.

[Newfie]

Depends upon how you define “impoverishment”. In purely financial terms you are correct. But we surely seem poor in terms of personal contentment. And our health care is poor by first world standards. And some portions of society seem stuck in fairly dismal conditions which self perpetuate.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')I know this is not popular but the best solution to solve the political impasse of the USA is to break the country apart into several autonomous separate nations.

Bust it up.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')I know this is not popular but the best solution to solve the political impasse of the USA is to break the country apart into several autonomous separate nations.

Bust it up.

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')Funny how the US public is so "impoverished", and yet the median household income has surged so much (in current dollars) in the decade since The Great Recession. Oh, and in the last 3.5 decades as well.

[Newfie]

There is, or should be no doubt, that our Consumer culture is broken. Recently I’ve been in a bing pointing out that this Consumerisim is like an extra tax that goes straight to the rich. Don’t know if I’m getting traction in that idea or not.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'T')here is, or should be no doubt, that our Consumer culture is broken. Recently I’ve been in a bing pointing out that this Consumerisim is like an extra tax that goes straight to the rich. Don’t know if I’m getting traction in that idea or not.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'I') have lived in several small countries, some rich, some poor, but they all shared some important characteristics somehow relevant to what ails the political system in the US currently. Switzerland and Panama where I lived both have populations under 8 million people. Both countries from border to border is under 6 hundred miles.

Small countries are not global powers.
Small countries do not spend a significant part of their GDP on the military.
Small countries tend to become provincial in the issues that dominate political discourse.
Small countries tend to have vibrant mom and pop industries and a lack of corporate influence dominating economic life. You do not see faceless boulevards of chain stores.
Cultural identity in small countries is not burdened with exceptionalism

The USA political system is currently a huge juggernaut of special interests all jockeying for power.

I know this is not popular but the best solution to solve the political impasse of the USA is to break the country apart into several autonomous separate nations.

Bust it up.

[Newfie]

I’ve been pondering along similar lines. It seems all really big countries have difficulties with their various factions. India, China, Indonesia, Pakistan. The USA fits right in the middle there. It’s a big country, not everyone shares the same value set. There should be enough room that folks can find someplace comfortable but still provide for mutual aid.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')It's already busted up, we call them States. We just need to take away more Federal Power and give it back to the states where it belongs....

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '.') Why not let these regions take off the shackles of federal incompetence and run with nationhood to allow for this cultural speciation?

[Cog]

Socialists want more centralized authority, not less. More federalism, not more state's rights.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e don't have to destroy the US and break it up into pieces to get limited federal government and more autonomy for the states. We just have to vote for people who will reduce the size of the federal government and return more of the power to the states and local regions.

[Pops]

How do you have democracy without people grouping themselves by interest?

Parties are shorthand. I've voted in elections for certain office with no reference to party on the ballot. I'm fairly interested in government but admit to not sleuthing out the resume of every judge or councilman so left the box blank.

Balkanisation isn't any answer, how far are you willing to divide until you get to purity? I live in Washington state, ooooh Left Coast! Not outside Seattle it ain't, eastern WA is Randy Weaver country. No different from any other place where city people have different needs and views than country people. Within cities are affluent neighborhoods where white collar homeowners have completely different demands than service-working renters across town. Are neighborhood warlords the answer?

Politics is either imposing the will of some on the others or balancing the needs of everyone. Partisanship isn't new, it's just advocating for your group of similarly interested people. What's new is for profit partisan media pushing alternative facts, online silos, click bait rage machines.

In Understanding Media in the 60s came the phrase "the medium is the message." Simply, the medium (TV, print, internet, or any technology) has intrinsic effects beyond the obvious. So, in an example Mcluan wrote, " the message of a newscast about a heinous crime may be less about the individual news story itself (the content), and more about the change in public attitude towards crime that the newscast engenders by the fact that such crimes are in effect being brought into the home to watch over dinner."

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')In Understanding Media in the 60s came the phrase "the medium is the message." Simply, the medium (TV, print, internet, or any technology) has intrinsic effects beyond the obvious. So, in an example Mcluan wrote, " the message of a newscast about a heinous crime may be less about the individual news story itself (the content), and more about the change in public attitude towards crime that the newscast engenders by the fact that such crimes are in effect being brought into the home to watch over dinner."