Will lead acid be replaced?

by **frankthetank** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 13:52:29

Will we ever see the end of lead acid batteries, turning to LiIon/NiMH, or are they here for the long haul? I ask because the weight of the batteries is incredible compared to similiar NiMH/Lithium.

Sure can't beat the cost of Lead/acid.

by **NeoPeasant** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 14:42:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'W')ill we ever see the end of lead acid batteries, turning to LiIon/NiMH, or are they here for the long haul? I ask because the weight of the batteries is incredible compared to similiar NiMH/Lithium.

Sure can't beat the cost of Lead/acid.

by **MicroHydro** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 22:07:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') have wondered whether it might be a good post-peak business to rebuild old lead-acid car batteries by cracking them open, puttng in re-molded replacement lead plates and new electrolyte. All those home solar and wind power systems are going to need storage batteries.

by **frankthetank** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 23:45:44

i guess i ask because of the heavy use of Lithium and Nickel in AA's/Digital cameras/notebooks...thought maybe larger 12volt batteries would start making the transition from lead-->lithium/nickel...

by **The_Toecutter** » Mon 25 Jul 2005, 01:40:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ill we ever see the end of lead acid batteries,

by **Zentric** » Mon 25 Jul 2005, 02:37:43

Last week, I stopped by the auto parts store and the guy at the counter told me about a nicad high-discharge-capable battery used by police cruisers that was a bit smaller than the lead-acid equivalent, could store more juice, but cost quite a bit more at around $150.

Assuming the materials would be available and the batteries lasted longer than lead-acid, could there also be a good niche for nicad storage in the future?

by **The_Toecutter** » Mon 25 Jul 2005, 03:01:10

NiCd absolutely needs recycling 100% of the time. Cadmium is highly toxic. I've never heard of sealed NiCd starting batteries, but a deep discharge version that only cost $150 or so for say a 50 AH 12V battery that weighed 20 pounds or so would be a boon to electric car drivers. My car with a battery like that?

NiCd has no Puekert's effect.

50 AH x 12V = 600 wh/battery.

I'd then fit in a 348V string of batteries, or 17,400 watt hours, and the pack would only weigh 580 pounds. Basically, the car would lose 550 pounds over having 25 Optima D750 sealed lead acid or 28 Exide Orbital XCD 30 sealed lead acid, have no peukert's efect. Simulated energy consumption would drop to 110 wh/mile at 65 mph due to huge loss in weight, projected weight would drop from about 2,500 pounds to only 2,000 pounds, and range would be 160 miles @ 65 mph, maybe 200 miles @ 55 mph.

I'd love such a battery. Where can I find one? Or is it simply what may show up soon? Currently, if I were to put in a 300V simgle string of Optima D750s, is would take 25 amps from the battery pack to cruise at 65 mph according to computer simulation(25 amps times 12.5V per battery times 25 batteries gives 7,800 watts of battery power to cruise at that speed). Optimas at that rate have 2 hours of operation, or 120 miles range @ 65 mph to 100% discharge. It's not wise to discharge lead acid past 80%, so basically 80-100 miles range with a big 1,125 pound battery pack.

NiCds would be awesome!

by **Zentric** » Mon 25 Jul 2005, 03:27:53

Toecutter: If such a sealed NiCd battery is news to you, I wonder if the info I got was correct. That's a compliment in case you're wondering.

What I saw was an Interstate Battery spec sheet. The part shop is just a few blocks from where I live, so I'll stop by there again and let you know.

by **The_Toecutter** » Mon 25 Jul 2005, 04:12:08

If you do actually find something, I'd like to know is its a sealed or flooded battery, cost, AH capacity, nominal voltage, and cycle life.

If such a company is making NiCds, my guess is that they'd be flooded. Whatever you find, I'd like to know. That way, I could contact the company, find out more, maybe even order one and bench test it to varify the maunufacturer's claims. Let the EV list know about it as well. Because currently, lead acid is about the only thing offered for automotive applications. Interstate Battery makes flooded lead acid batteries that are frequently used in EVs, on the other hand. I avoid floodeds. I like sealed batteries because they provide much more power, and the car I'm building is going to have/need lots of it for the racing application.

by **Zentric** » Tue 26 Jul 2005, 04:08:24

Okay, Toecutter, I stopped back by the shop today. Here's your info, and I'm sorry but I do not know what you mean by notifying the EV list.

Perhaps this is a new or "secret" battery, because there really isn't much detailed information to be found on the Internet regarding the Interstate Optima SC34U. Is it a NiCad battery? Well, the man behind the counter said it was and that's all I presently have to go on.

Other specs:

BCI Group Size: 3478
Terminal: U
CCA 30sec 0 (degrees) F: 800
RC Min 25A 80 F: 110
CA/MCA 30sec 32 F: 980
Voltage: 12
Stock No.: 59501
Retail: $135.95
List: $147.95

Non-commercial usage:
Free Replacement (months): 36
Service Adjusted: 72

Commercial usage:
Service Adjusted: 24

Interstate's phone number: (800) 562-3212

As for me, I'm not looking so much for a car battery, but one that will dependably hold a large charge from a gas/diesel generator or a solar array. Same difference, I'm figuring.

by **The_Toecutter** » Tue 26 Jul 2005, 05:08:52

It's lead acid.

I'll be using either Optima D750s or Exide Orbitals in my electric car, both of which are saled lead acid.

Will lead acid be replaced?

Will lead acid be replaced?

Re: Will lead acid be replaced?

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