[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'O')n some level there is little difference between democracy and mob rule.

That is why the USA Cnstitution was so artfully crafted. And the Electorial College is at the heart of that grand compromise. To protect the small interests while allowing general majority rule.

[Newfie]

Yes, all the slaves in RI and NJ and DE.

Come on Pops. You are demonstrating what is wrong with America. You are stuck in a partisan groove, by your own admission stuck in the media you yourself trash. WTF. You exactly fit the paradigm of those you say we should ignore.

[KaiserJeep]

Don't go promoting any false history here, either. The electoral college was created when there were but 13 colonies, and the purpose was to prevent the twelve smaller states from being overwhelmed by the larger one (Virginia) via the popular vote.

If you doubt that, I invite you to read The Federalist Papers. Everybody should read these at least once to separate the speculation from the actual thoughts of the Founding Fathers.

Slavery was a common practice brought over from Europe. The large plantation form of slavery was also practiced in Asia and Africa before it was in the New World. Then the first major country to end slavery was the USA, even though the cost was very high, our Civil War.

All so Michelle Obama was free to say:"I live in a house built by slaves."

[Newfie]

While I agree with the majority of your post this oendantic point remains. From wiki.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The Slavery Abolition Act 1833 (3 & 4 Will. IV c. 73) abolished slavery throughout the British Empire. This Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom expanded the jurisdiction of the Slave Trade Act 1807 which made the purchase or ownership of slaves illegal within the British Empire, with the exception of "the Territories in the Possession of the East India Company", Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), and Saint Helena.

[EnergyUnlimited]

@Ibon,
Degeneracy and idiocracy are becoming to be distinctly new trends on the West. Yes, they may well contribute to rebalancing human population with Nature, if only by assisting other more usual *overshoot predators*.
Changes in american society are breathtaking. I am only wondering what for example AOC would achieve, should she becomes to be a new president or an important voice in american politics.
As per corporate parasites - these are preparing themselves for a final feeding frenzy on dead corpse of our civilization, and that will incidentally herald their own demise. Soon after finishing off the West they will be disbanded by mobs and replaced by mafias.
I can only hope that rest of the world will not embrace certain american social policies (China is likely to resist those) or we will all live in a sort of Third World hellholes in no time at all.

@Newfie,
All these peoples crying how disadvantaged they are, new transgender laws etc are clearly demonstrating that *progessivism* have gone too far and it is now firmly alligned with forces of entropy.
From what I observe, an intelligent public debate on the West is no longer possible.

@Onlooker,
Plutocracy you mention is a clever one. It works for the rich and yet it is overwhelmingly supported by the poor, what can be seen for example in California.
Eastern Europe like Poland where I live is still resisting decadence but most of Western Europe (and all Nordic countries) is about to go down the drain.
If I am a Swedish patriot, I would pray for a Russian military invasion ASAP, as a matter of urgency, as it is about the only hope to save native population from extinction.

@Pops,
Are you suggesting that avoiding watching certain sources of news will make problems discussed there disappearing or you are simply saying that it is all blown out of proportion and situation is not near that bad?
But I think, that peoples building favelas 5 minutes of drive from magnificent skyscrappers of beautiful city, shitting on the streets at will and entirely legally or falling down from drug overdose like flies in broad daylight is an example of cultural collapse.
Could you imagine such scenes 10-20-30 years ago? Homeless peoples were around all the time, but in the past they still had much more pride and dignity than now.

@Cog,
Left and right are cooperating with each other to destroy american nation.
Right is bombing some already hopelessly retarded countries to oblivion and also incite rebellions against few still coping governments there and left is embracing all resulting refugees and invites them into United States.
They are perfectly complimenting each other and work to the same ends.

[BahamasEd]

The pie is getting smaller, but no on one wants to take a smaller piece.

Therefore, if my piece stays the same or grows some, you have to go with a smaller piece or without any at all.

And it's not just in the USA, it's world wide.

Welcome to collapse, the slow version, enjoy.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BahamasEd', 'T')he pie is getting smaller, but no on one wants to take a smaller piece.

Therefore, if my piece stays the same or grows some, you have to go with a smaller piece or without any at all.

And it's not just in the USA, it's world wide.

Welcome to collapse, the slow version, enjoy.

[KaiserJeep]

I have to laugh. Sometimes the Doomies pile BS so deep you need chest waders.

In fact, never have so many enjoyed Middle Class comforts on this planet. Never has extreme poverty been as low as at present (10% is still 770 million, a serious problem).

For every income strata of society, things are slowly, incrementally improving. For those of you who forecast the future, be it with chicken bones, drill rig counts, or market statistics, note that there is no Doom on the entire visible horizon. Nor in the 9000 year History of human civilization has TEOTWAWKI ever actually happened. YES, individual countries have stumbled and fallen, but the World has persevered.

I know, most of you find the very concept intolerable - but I'll say it, never-the-less. The most likely future by far is one where the humans muddle through all forms of adversity, and become stronger as a race because of it. Because bad times for individual humans accelerate evolution, and we adapt and overcome whatever is before us, becoming a more dominant species in the ecosystem.

Last parting thought: Even if we completely screw up the planet itself, we already possess the knowledge and even the designs of self-sufficient space habitats. Even a dreamer such as Elon Musk, with his obsession with a colony on the surface of Mars, cannot think outside the box on this one.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'D')on't go promoting any false history here, either. The electoral college was created when there were but 13 colonies, and the purpose was to prevent the twelve smaller states from being overwhelmed by the larger one (Virginia) via the popular vote.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')@Pops,
Are you suggesting that avoiding watching certain sources of news will make problems discussed there disappearing or you are simply saying that it is all blown out of proportion and situation is not near that bad?
But I think, that peoples building favelas 5 minutes of drive from magnificent skyscrappers of beautiful city, shitting on the streets at will and entirely legally or falling down from drug overdose like flies in broad daylight is an example of cultural collapse.
Could you imagine such scenes 10-20-30 years ago? Homeless peoples were around all the time, but in the past they still had much more pride and dignity than now.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '
')Last parting thought: Even if we completely screw up the planet itself, we already possess the knowledge and even the designs of self-sufficient space habitats. Even a dreamer such as Elon Musk, with his obsession with a colony on the surface of Mars, cannot think outside the box on this one.

[KaiserJeep]

Interesting reading, Pops. Certainly, I was invested in some "electoral myths".

But I found an absolutely valid reason to retain the Electoral College: HRC was the fifth Democratic candidate for POTUS to be denied the office by the EC.

If you don't like it, why don't you start a movement to amend the Constitution? That should be about as popular as the Equal Rights Amendment, which failed ratification and denied gender equality to women.

Still (I know this one hurts a lot) No Doom in sight anywhere.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'Y')es, all the slaves in RI and NJ and DE.

Come on Pops. You are demonstrating what is wrong with America. You are stuck in a partisan groove, by your own admission stuck in the media you yourself trash. WTF. You exactly fit the paradigm of those you say we should ignore.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')No, not ignore it, but understand the motivations of your sources. One source will point to favelas as the fault of the lazy residents, the ineffectual government, rampant immigration. Another source will point to lack of mental health care and drug treatment, affordable housing, gentrification, job opportunity / living wage.

The answer is somewhere in the middle, but siloing is the media business model, where once it was broadcasting it is now narrowcasting.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'I')nteresting reading, Pops. Certainly, I was invested in some "electoral myths".

But I found an absolutely valid reason to retain the Electoral College: HRC was the fifth Democratic candidate for POTUS to be denied the office by the EC.

If you don't like it, why don't you start a movement to amend the Constitution? That should be about as popular as the Equal Rights Amendment, which failed ratification and denied gender equality to women.

Still (I know this one hurts a lot) No Doom in sight anywhere.

[KaiserJeep]

The EC came about in 1787 and has withstood all attempts at change at the Federal level. The reason being that it leaves most of the important decisions to the States. The disparity in outcomes between the EC and the popular vote comes about at the state level, because in 48 states, there are "winner take all" provisions. Only Nebraska and Maine cast EC votes in proportion to popular votes - and these decisions were made by state legislators.

[Ibon]

I think regardless of political ideology there should be a consensus that there is enough abundance in the USA to be able to address some of the issues discussed here as regarding the degeneration of the USA.

How interelated for example three of the most egregious problems; The opiod addiction, homelessness and a failed health care industry.

When you consider that the opiod crisis became a crisis because of disenfranchised citizens under stress, that many of the homeless are actually suffering mental health issues and that the for profit health care system has left many folks under insured or un insured then you can see how these three issues have created a synergistic affect that has accelerated the degeneration.

And none of this is because of resource constraints or an over crowded world or climate change. These issues are not partisan or racial or urban vs rural... They are problems that sweep through all demographics and all ideological backgrounds.

So when confronted with the severity of these issues you really do have to ask yourself why all this divisiveness?

Who is to benefit from the stalemate?

Why have we become so jaded and uncaring that these enormous and fixable issues take second place to staying locked into your ideological tribe.

There is a spiritual deficit in the USA. I think the discussion starts from there.

[onlooker]

"
In fact, never have so many enjoyed Middle Class comforts on this planet. Never has extreme poverty been as low as at present (10% is still 770 million, a serious problem). 

For every income strata of society, things are slowly, incrementally improving. For those of you who forecast the future, be it with chicken bones, drill rig counts, or market statistics, note that there is no Doom on the entire visible horizon."

It is the height of folly to believe no Doom on the horizon. Our world Economy and overpopulation is producing tremendously negative impact to the Environment. That the Environment continues to function adequately in many cases only attests to the resilience. But, tipping points are by many accounts approaching and we are running out of resources to sustain even a fraction of our world population. But, this is straying from the topic. The US and other rich countries by virtue of stealing resources and a huge balance of economic throughput from the poor countries still can maintain modern industrial consumer economies. But, it is telling that the same deviant mindframe that espouses our "dominance" and "technology" has also created such inequality and injustice in this world of which the US is a place that certainly can attest to that. So, Kaiser would have you believe that never have so many enjoyed Middle Class lifestyles but he does not reveal that never have so many poor existed either on Earth. Poor in absolute terms and poor in terms of being exploited for their labor by the Owners of Capital.

[dissident]

In hindsight we may see the current unhinging of the political space in the developed world as part of the looming collapse. Subconsciously humans know that no party can last. All their brazen denial and ignoring of the truth are really admissions of the reality of the threat. Faced with real end times, well off humans start to engage in debauchery and to avoid engaging their brains. This is what we see with all the snowflake mobs. They refuse to use their brains and instead engage in feel-good violence. Next step is for the physical violence to get worse. There will never be enough dopamine stimulus from brainless rampaging.

It may well be that civilization collapses before the exogenous shocks of cheap energy decline and climate change hit the hardest. All the expectation of rational response to these shocks is probably ignorant of the reality of human behaviour.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'Y')es, all the slaves in RI and NJ and DE.

Come on Pops. You are demonstrating what is wrong with America. You are stuck in a partisan groove, by your own admission stuck in the media you yourself trash. WTF. You exactly fit the paradigm of those you say we should ignore.