One side effect I forgot is dehydration. Kidneys work overtime to keep pH balanced so you gotta drink mucho water and add some salt and maybe magnesium pills if you get leg cramps or feel like your heart is working overtime (low blood volume). Obviously you shouldn't do low carb if you have problems with those organs, or at least talk to the doc.
Newfie's link talks about lethargy and until I get used to the more constant energy level from running on fat, I kinda feel lethargic. It takes some time, at least a week but if you're pre-diabetic and soaking in higer than normal sugar already, it's gonna take longer to adjust and feel "right." On the flip tho, there isn't a big burst of energy from a carb load and then a crash (with a normal pancreas the automatic reaction to high BG is to lower it as fast as possible—often too low). I find I may work a little slower but longer and steadier on low carb.
PeakOil is You
THE Diabetes Thread (merged)
Re: THE Diabetes Thread (merged)
by Pops » Tue 21 Aug 2018, 11:53:41
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
-
Pops - Elite
- Posts: 19746
- Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
- Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac
Re: THE Diabetes Thread (merged)
by Subjectivist » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 22:30:03
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'O')ne side effect I forgot is dehydration. Kidneys work overtime to keep pH balanced so you gotta drink mucho water and add some salt and maybe magnesium pills if you get leg cramps or feel like your heart is working overtime (low blood volume). Obviously you shouldn't do low carb if you have problems with those organs, or at least talk to the doc.
Newfie's link talks about lethargy and until I get used to the more constant energy level from running on fat, I kinda feel lethargic. It takes some time, at least a week but if you're pre-diabetic and soaking in higer than normal sugar already, it's gonna take longer to adjust and feel "right." On the flip tho, there isn't a big burst of energy from a carb load and then a crash (with a normal pancreas the automatic reaction to high BG is to lower it as fast as possible—often too low). I find I may work a little slower but longer and steadier on low carb.
Newfie's link talks about lethargy and until I get used to the more constant energy level from running on fat, I kinda feel lethargic. It takes some time, at least a week but if you're pre-diabetic and soaking in higer than normal sugar already, it's gonna take longer to adjust and feel "right." On the flip tho, there isn't a big burst of energy from a carb load and then a crash (with a normal pancreas the automatic reaction to high BG is to lower it as fast as possible—often too low). I find I may work a little slower but longer and steadier on low carb.
I have heard a lot of people talk about brain fog, but I have periodically fasted for decades for relgious reasons. If I ever had brain fog from fasting it was so long ago I do not remember having it. These days when I fast my system switches over pretty seamlessly. Sure I get hungry in the first 36 hours or so, but after that the hunger fades. I did learn way back when I became a Christian and started fasting to drink a lot of water. If I don't stay hydrated while fasting it causes me migrain size headaches.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
- Subjectivist
- Volunteer
- Posts: 4705
- Joined: Sat 28 Aug 2010, 07:38:26
- Location: Northwest Ohio
Re: THE Diabetes Thread (merged)
by Tanada » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 10:44:00
Nice write up on how bad science and especially bad reporting on science lead to bad decisions by the general public. Much more at link below the quote.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')size=150]2. OMG, keto will make you diabetic!!!ARGLE BARGLE!!![/size]
Short answer: No, it won’t.
Long answer: The Journal of Physiology published a paper that claimed a significant increase in risk for diabetes and insulin resistance was found in mice after two weeks on a Ketogenic protocol.
The study itself seems to be decently designed on its face. There were two groups of mice, one was fed a high carb chow for the duration and the other was fed a low carb, high fat chow. All well and good, thus far.
So, what’s wrong with it? A few things.
To start, I want to very briefly touch on the fact that we are studying mice and applying the findings to human beings. I realize that this isn’t considered outside of the realm of good science and, in fact, clinical trials in humans for pharmaceuticals or cosmetics, for example, typically don’t progress until it’s been tested on animals. The reasons for this should be fairly obvious, and are understandable. If a products kills off the rats, it’s probably not a good idea to give it to the humans.
However, rodents are not humans. Yes, we are both omnivores, and our digestive systems are a similar make up and function in a similar fashion. Rodents, however, are scavengers, and their dietary needs aren’t identical to that of human beings. Now, I want to clarify that this is not even remotely as bad as feeding herbivores a diet designed for humans and then extrapolating the devestating consequences out to the general human population (Hello, trials testing high fat diets on rabbits. Yes, I’m looking at you.). In my opinion, however, making direct dietary outcome comparisons between rodents and humans seems sketchy, at best. So, that’s something to keep in mind when evaluating any dietary study.
The next issue that should be a problem for anyone is that the trial was very short-term, and the results were measured after only a few weeks. Anyone who has been or has hung around the low carb and keto community for any period of time has heard of things like fat adaptation and the keto “flu.” As concisely as I can make this, keto “flu” are the typically flu-like symptoms that many people experience in the first few weeks of drastically lowering carbs. Your kidneys stop holding on to excess salt and water, and without adequate replacement (and sometimes even with it), headaches, fatigue, and shakiness can occur. Your muscles will run through their glycogen stores, and you might experience weakness and decreases in endurance in relation. Your body eventually, after a few weeks, stops operating in a way that relies on glucose for energy and begins to shift metabolism so that you can run on both body and dietary fat instead. Blood sugar and insulin stabilize, and energy levels tend to come roaring back as you start using fatty acids efficiently. This shift is the beginnings of keto adaptation, wherein your body adapts to ketosis for the long term.
The problem with this study in regards to keto and fat adaptation is that it was so short-term neither one is likely to have occurred. Therefore, it is highly likely that what these researchers observed is more related to the early keto adaptation period, and is not necessarily representative of a longer-term maintenance of ketosis. Would the results have been the same had the study gone on longer? We don’t know, but the important thing is that neither do they.
The last thing I want to touch on in regards to this study is what I would consider to be the real “clincher.” When designing an experiment to look at how a specific dietary protocol affects an organism, one would expect the food to actually resemble what a typical adherent regularly eats. And, on the surface, the macronutrient composition of the high fat mouse chow seems to meet this standard. The food was just at 90% calories from fat, and while most of us would probably classify that ratio as somewhat more akin to keto for medical therapy, it’s within the generally accepted guidelines. Not the most common ratios, by any means, but not outside of the realm of possibility.
When you look deeper, however, what you find is that the high fat mouse chow was made up of mostly hydrogenated vegetable oil, corn oil, and cellulose. That’s right, folks. They fed these poor rodents a diet of Crisco for a few weeks and then wrote a paper attributing the predictably awful result to keto.
Science, y’all.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')size=150]2. OMG, keto will make you diabetic!!!ARGLE BARGLE!!![/size]
Short answer: No, it won’t.
Long answer: The Journal of Physiology published a paper that claimed a significant increase in risk for diabetes and insulin resistance was found in mice after two weeks on a Ketogenic protocol.
The study itself seems to be decently designed on its face. There were two groups of mice, one was fed a high carb chow for the duration and the other was fed a low carb, high fat chow. All well and good, thus far.
So, what’s wrong with it? A few things.
To start, I want to very briefly touch on the fact that we are studying mice and applying the findings to human beings. I realize that this isn’t considered outside of the realm of good science and, in fact, clinical trials in humans for pharmaceuticals or cosmetics, for example, typically don’t progress until it’s been tested on animals. The reasons for this should be fairly obvious, and are understandable. If a products kills off the rats, it’s probably not a good idea to give it to the humans.
However, rodents are not humans. Yes, we are both omnivores, and our digestive systems are a similar make up and function in a similar fashion. Rodents, however, are scavengers, and their dietary needs aren’t identical to that of human beings. Now, I want to clarify that this is not even remotely as bad as feeding herbivores a diet designed for humans and then extrapolating the devestating consequences out to the general human population (Hello, trials testing high fat diets on rabbits. Yes, I’m looking at you.). In my opinion, however, making direct dietary outcome comparisons between rodents and humans seems sketchy, at best. So, that’s something to keep in mind when evaluating any dietary study.
The next issue that should be a problem for anyone is that the trial was very short-term, and the results were measured after only a few weeks. Anyone who has been or has hung around the low carb and keto community for any period of time has heard of things like fat adaptation and the keto “flu.” As concisely as I can make this, keto “flu” are the typically flu-like symptoms that many people experience in the first few weeks of drastically lowering carbs. Your kidneys stop holding on to excess salt and water, and without adequate replacement (and sometimes even with it), headaches, fatigue, and shakiness can occur. Your muscles will run through their glycogen stores, and you might experience weakness and decreases in endurance in relation. Your body eventually, after a few weeks, stops operating in a way that relies on glucose for energy and begins to shift metabolism so that you can run on both body and dietary fat instead. Blood sugar and insulin stabilize, and energy levels tend to come roaring back as you start using fatty acids efficiently. This shift is the beginnings of keto adaptation, wherein your body adapts to ketosis for the long term.
The problem with this study in regards to keto and fat adaptation is that it was so short-term neither one is likely to have occurred. Therefore, it is highly likely that what these researchers observed is more related to the early keto adaptation period, and is not necessarily representative of a longer-term maintenance of ketosis. Would the results have been the same had the study gone on longer? We don’t know, but the important thing is that neither do they.
The last thing I want to touch on in regards to this study is what I would consider to be the real “clincher.” When designing an experiment to look at how a specific dietary protocol affects an organism, one would expect the food to actually resemble what a typical adherent regularly eats. And, on the surface, the macronutrient composition of the high fat mouse chow seems to meet this standard. The food was just at 90% calories from fat, and while most of us would probably classify that ratio as somewhat more akin to keto for medical therapy, it’s within the generally accepted guidelines. Not the most common ratios, by any means, but not outside of the realm of possibility.
When you look deeper, however, what you find is that the high fat mouse chow was made up of mostly hydrogenated vegetable oil, corn oil, and cellulose. That’s right, folks. They fed these poor rodents a diet of Crisco for a few weeks and then wrote a paper attributing the predictably awful result to keto.
Science, y’all.
LINK
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
- Tanada
- Site Admin
- Posts: 17094
- Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA
Re: THE Diabetes Thread (merged)
by onlooker » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 10:56:28
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/ketogenic-diet-101
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ') Diabetes is characterized by changes in metabolism, high blood sugar and impaired insulin function (27).
The ketogenic diet can help you lose excess fat, which is closely linked to type 2 diabetes, prediabetes and metabolic syndrome (28, 29, 30).
One study found that the ketogenic diet improved insulin sensitivity by a whopping 75% (29).
Another study in people with type 2 diabetes found that 7 of the 21 participants were able to stop using all diabetes medications (28).
In yet another study, the ketogenic group lost 24.4 pounds (11.1 kg), compared to 15.2 pounds (6.9 kg) in the higher-carb group. This is an important benefit when considering the link between weight and type 2 diabetes (2, 31).
Additionally, 95.2% of the ketogenic group were also able to stop or reduce diabetes medication, compared to 62% in the higher-carb group (2).
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ') Diabetes is characterized by changes in metabolism, high blood sugar and impaired insulin function (27).
The ketogenic diet can help you lose excess fat, which is closely linked to type 2 diabetes, prediabetes and metabolic syndrome (28, 29, 30).
One study found that the ketogenic diet improved insulin sensitivity by a whopping 75% (29).
Another study in people with type 2 diabetes found that 7 of the 21 participants were able to stop using all diabetes medications (28).
In yet another study, the ketogenic group lost 24.4 pounds (11.1 kg), compared to 15.2 pounds (6.9 kg) in the higher-carb group. This is an important benefit when considering the link between weight and type 2 diabetes (2, 31).
Additionally, 95.2% of the ketogenic group were also able to stop or reduce diabetes medication, compared to 62% in the higher-carb group (2).
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
-
onlooker - Fission
- Posts: 10957
- Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 13:49:04
- Location: NY, USA
