THE War in Iraq Thread pt 2 (merged)

by **PlanComplete** » Fri 22 Jul 2005, 21:38:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')
This is a false argument. There is unconscious bias and there is deliberate distortion of the truth. They are neither morally equivalent or conceptually similar. Try taking up thinking for a hobby, Plans Complete. You might like it.

by **Carlhole** » Fri 22 Jul 2005, 22:41:59

I like to read the Asia Times, myself.

by **threadbear** » Sat 23 Jul 2005, 02:21:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PlanComplete', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')
This is a false argument. There is unconscious bias and there is deliberate distortion of the truth. They are neither morally equivalent or conceptually similar. Try taking up thinking for a hobby, Plans Complete. You might like it.

by **muhandis** » Sat 23 Jul 2005, 04:15:17

My recollection is that the orginal post was regarding the differences in news coverage between the Unites States and the rest of the world, particularly with respect to reporting on the invasion of Iraq.

All news is biased. However, at what point does bias become spin, spin become propaganda?

If I compare mainstream American news coverage with say, Al-Jazeera (english service), I suspect that both are biased to service their audiences interests. Similiarly, I have no-doubts that the Tehran Times isn't biased. But blended, (along with some BBC, DW, CBC and Guardian) they do cover an interesting and wide range of interpretations of the same events.

by **muhandis** » Sat 23 Jul 2005, 04:27:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')icrohydro:
America is as crazy as it is in large part due to the horrid state of American media, a toxic mix of propaganda and mindless tabloid stories.

by **Free** » Sat 23 Jul 2005, 04:52:20

Yes I like www.atimes.com very much as well.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'H')ow bad is US censorship? Well, I was able to get a realistic daily newspaper in the US only by ordering the Financial Times. Now let's be serious, this is the British equivalent of the Wall Street Journal, hardly a Marxist rag. But even the stuffy old establishment FT has vastly different reporting than the so called "liberal" US media, which are actually all rabidly nationalist and pro-war. America is as crazy as it is in large part due to the horrid state of American media, a toxic mix of propaganda and mindless tabloid stories. Even the so called "liberal" democrats in America believe completely in American exceptionalism and are pro-war.

by **cube** » Sat 23 Jul 2005, 05:57:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', '.').........
Don't worry folks.

At least the war in Irak is going better than the war on drugs.
............

by **oiless** » Sat 23 Jul 2005, 14:51:31

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com
http://afamilyinbaghdad.blogspot.com/
http://secretsinbaghdad.blogspot.com/

by **Carlhole** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 07:44:16

As he completes another tour of duty in the chaos of Iraq, award-winning reporter Patrick Cockburn charts how Bush and Blair's 'winnable war' turned into a mess that is inspiring a worldwide insurgence

Iraq: This is now an unwinnable conflict
by Patrick Cockburn
7-24-05

The Duke of Wellington, warning hawkish politicians in Britain against ill-considered military intervention abroad, once said: "Great nations do not have small wars." He meant that supposedly limited conflicts can inflict terrible damage on powerful states. Having seen what a small war in Spain had done to Napoleon, he knew what he was talking about.

The war in Iraq is now joining the Boer War in 1899 and the Suez crisis in 1956 as ill-considered ventures that have done Britain more harm than good. It has demonstrably strengthened al-Qa'ida by providing it with a large pool of activists and sympathisers across the Muslim world it did not possess before the invasion of 2003. The war, which started out as a demonstration of US strength as the world's only superpower, has turned into a demonstration of weakness. Its 135,000-strong army does not control much of Iraq.

The suicide bombing campaign in Iraq is unique. Never before have so many fanatical young Muslims been willing to kill themselves, trying to destroy those whom they see as their enemies. On a single day in Baghdad this month 12 bombers blew themselves up. There have been more than 500 suicide attacks in Iraq over the last year...

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/mid ... 301250.ece

by **killJOY** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 10:02:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Bush and Blair's 'winnable war' turned into a mess that is inspiring a worldwide insurgence

by **Wildwell** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 11:56:42

Yes it is unwinnerble – at least from the political point of view. Islamists won’t succeed in taking over the US/UK/Europe, but there is no possible way the UK/US could take 12 suicide bombings a day on home soil without a huge backlash and that backlash will force a compromise. People will take matters into their own hands and will deal with the politicians as well – such as they did in Spain.

The press are just starting to taking about it now. While people recognise suicide bombings and the religious persecutions are wrong and unjust, they are also capable of a more sophisticated debate concerning foreign policy. Negative forces must be dealt with collectively, here, we has a situation where unilateral action has caused a great deal of hate, particularly against the US. More disturbingly this is from quite friendly nations such as France, Germany as well as the more traditional sources of disquiet. While no group should be appeased, there are difficulties and issues beneath the surface which must be solved.

For a start, there are complex political questions.

Next, on the question of resources (BTW I’m not suggesting Iraq was a resource war) alternatives MUST developed NOW. Further dependency on oil will ultimately give the terrorists more power, another argument, and, god forbid if a major disruption to oil supply occurs the most dependent economies will crash.

The third world war has now begun and the first oil age has now ended, the world moves on and so must we. We either find solutions to the underlying problems or face serious consequences, every single one of us.

by **Denny** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 12:36:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', '
')Is it possible things are going exactly as planned?

by **Denny** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 12:54:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('julianj', 'I') tire of posting the same things, but here we go.

1. The US/UK forces lost the Iraq war some time ago, about the time of Abu Ghraib. Hearts and minds etc.

2. Most of Iraq is in the hands of the Iraqi Resistance. But Shiites are also fighting Sunni. There aren't enough US/UK forces to control the country.

3. There are virtually no "foreign fighters" except for US/UK forces and their mercenaries, sorry "contractors" 20-40,000 troops. It's the Iraqis doing the fighting against the invaders.

4. The Iraq army/police/security forces will *never* amount to anything - remember Vietnam? It's the ARVN all over again. When you hear about effective battalions, remember they are Kurdish Pershmerga, conducting ethnic cleansing. Some of the best troops you fight, you actually trained, then they defected and shoot at the US with your own weapons.

5. The Iraqi Resistance has infiltrated everywhere. US intel = zero.

6. The British forces - call us Perfidious Albion - have done a deal in Basra - and let the Islamic theocrats take control, on condition they let the oil flow and don't shoot up our troops. Fine, it works.

7. Any power which can't even control the Baghdad Airport Road, really ain't winning.

8. Note the new constitution, can you say Islamic State? Was that worth 300+ billion, Oil minus, and all those dead?

You can easily find this stuff out for yourself, if you like to, try www.antiwar.com for starters. I really doubt that the average Iraqi Resister watches Fox News.

I think we say, Deal with reality before reality deals with you.

Withdrawal of all US/UK forces is the only option. "We" are the problem, not the solution.

by **aahala** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 13:48:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Bush and Blair's 'winnable war' turned into a mess that is inspiring a worldwide insurgence

by **killJOY** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 14:28:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')oo cold hearted a notion to believe

by **Jdelagado** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 20:21:10

killJOY,

You look like a psycho in that picture, dude. I'm not messing with you!!!

HAHAHAHA!!!!!

:lol:

jdelagado

by **jaws** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 20:31:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aahala', 'P')lan? Did the US finally get a plan?

It looks to me like all we're doing is trying to manage chaos, and
not always doing a good job at that.

by **threadbear** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 20:39:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Bush and Blair's 'winnable war' turned into a mess that is inspiring a worldwide insurgence

by **Badger** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 20:45:36

Do you know what guerrillas often say? They claim that their rebellions are invulnerable to economic warfare because they have no economy, that they are parasitic on those that they would overthrow. The fools merely fail to assess the coin in which they must inevitably pay. The pattern is inexorable in its degenerative failures. You see it repeated in the systems of slavery, of welfare states, of caste ridden religions, of socializing bureacracies-in any system which creates and maintains dependencies. Too long a parasite and you cannot exist without a host.

DUNE- The stolen journals

by **killJOY** » Sun 24 Jul 2005, 21:18:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou look like a psycho in that picture, dude

THE War in Iraq Thread pt 2 (merged)

Re: Arianna Huffington: Iraq: The War We Are Not Being Shown

Re: Arianna Huffington: Iraq: The War We Are Not Being Shown

Iraq: This Is Now An Unwinnable Conflict - The Independent

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