[vegasmade]

I hate to call this another 'science saves the day' idea, but it is. Besides his use of the word temporary, he seemed to convey a distant decline. How can we develop his energy source during the decline? If somebody kicked him in the pants and put a sense of urgency in him, something might get done. Somebody email him with the DoE report from earlier this year that says we need to start mitigation before the decline. His credentials alone might awaken the PO unaware.

[WebHubbleTelescope]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BiGG', '
')Right now we grow corn/grain and make Ethanol out of it by using the starch only leaving the protein, minerals, fat and fiber which is concentrated during the production process to produce a highly valued and nutritious livestock feed called Distillers Dried Grains with Solubles (DDGS).

[bart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nano', 'I')nteresting, so the limiting factor here is really only the available arable land and the energy capturing efficiency of the plants. Still, it leaves the world with much less energy than during the good ol' cheap oil days... Too much less to provide me with much comfort...

[Chichis]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', 'Y')ou've gotten to the nub of the issue, Nano. Agriculture can never provide the cheap energy of fossil fuels. Solar energy falling on the land is diffuse and much effort will be required to grow, harvest and process the crops -- so the EROEI will not be high.

[bart]

You're right, Chichis. Ultimately we're going to go back to a solar economy. So, we'd better get good at it!

We need to become more efficient. For example, the following process will no longer fly:

1. Grow sugar cane, grasses, or corn as as biofuels.
2. Transport biofuels to a generating plant.
3. Burn biofuels to produce electricity.
4. Transport electricity to the consumer.
5. Use the electricity for heating (heating the home, drying clothes, cooking food, heating water).

Better to use the solar energy directly or with as few intermediate steps as possible. For example: passive solar construction, solar cookers and clotheslines.

Kurt Cobb has an interesting post on Energy density--a key to understanding our energy dilemma.

[Nano]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', 'I') personally don't see any of these solutions as being enough currently, but it seems to be our only way out over the long term, and I don't think we should just give up.

[Graeme]

I'm not a particularly religious person but I found the comments by Townes very interesting:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')eligion and science, faith and empirical experiment: these terms would seem to have as little in common as a Baptist preacher and a Berkeley physicist. And yet, according to Charles Hard Townes, winner of a Nobel Prize in Physics and a UC Berkeley professor in the Graduate School, they are united by similar goals: science seeks to discern the laws and order of our universe; religion, to understand the universe's purpose and meaning, and how humankind fits into both.
Where these areas intersect is territory that Townes has been exploring for many of his 89 years, and in March his insights were honored with the 2005 Templeton Prize for Progress Toward Research or Discoveries about Spiritual Realities. Worth about $1.5 million, the Templeton Prize recognizes those who, throughout their lives, have sought to advance ideas and/or institutions that will deepen the world's understanding of God and of spiritual realities.

[oddone]

In his speech
http://www.dagbladet.no/download/NobelSpeech.doc
the US Ambassador to Norway, Benson K. Whitney, outlines the future relationship between our two countries, but I feel it is all about energy and security.
Basically it is a speech about US need for "our" oil and gas, and that our comittment to US will be rewarded with security and stability.

[Zardoz]

That's hilarious, and pathetic. We've been reduced to sending officials off around the world, begging for oil.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'T')hat's hilarious, and pathetic. We've been reduced to sending officials off around the world, begging for oil.

[mekrob]

Specop, I don't see how other doing it makes it any less pathetic on our part for doing it. If we are so high and mighty, we shouldn't have to go around begging.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '[')i]WE??...every first world and moving into first world country on the globe...

[Colorado-Valley]

I say send in the B-52s, led by Major Kong ... bomb the fjords!

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'S')pecop, I don't see how other doing it makes it any less pathetic on our part for doing it. If we are so high and mighty, we shouldn't have to go around begging.

[mekrob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'S')pecop, I don't see how other doing it makes it any less pathetic on our part for doing it. If we are so high and mighty, we shouldn't have to go around begging.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'S')pecop, I don't see how other doing it makes it any less pathetic on our part for doing it. If we are so high and mighty, we shouldn't have to go around begging.

[LadyRuby]

No ambassador serving under Bush has any credibility anywhere in the world. We're just passing time and hoping somehow the additional damage inflicted by the BushCo. can be minimized over the next 2 years. But of course that doesn't seem to be happening by any stretch.

[oddone]

The way I see it he did not beg, he threatened.
You're either with us or against us... again.

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oddone', 'T')he way I see it he did not beg, he threatened.
You're either with us or against us... again.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oddone', 'T')he way I see it he did not beg, he threatened.
You're either with us or against us... again.