PeakOil is You
Zero Point Energy (merged)
by threadbear » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 14:10:49
Eric, Wrong. My husband met the dude who pioneered a lot of this stuff and has one of these little machines. Whether the energy can be harnessed for usefull purposes remains to be seen.
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by ChumpusRex » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 16:21:45
Ah. The legendary Monsieur Naudin strikes again. He really is the master of incomeptant measurements.
He persisted for years with the Bearden MEG - a very poor quality switched-mode power supply, with an added permanent magnet (for no apparent reason). He copied the Bearden design so closely, that he even made the same mistake as Bearden. He forgot to divide by 10 when calculating the output power.
You see, he never *measured* the output power directly - it was always calculated (sometimes automatically) from voltage and current readings. Yet he forgot to consider the fact that there was a factor of 10 conversion with his circuit.
The same thing goes for the MAHG. His device 'works' on half-wave rectified DC. This is a nightmare waveform to measure power with - because it has both AC and DC components.
The methods Naudin uses (use of ammeters and voltmeters, and a simple dual channel oscilloscope) are not appropriate for measuring power which is supplied by half-wave rectified DC.
In fact using conventional tools to measure power delivered by half-wave rectified DC leads to an underestimate of power by 60% !. In other words, your equipment would tell you you had an efficiency of 250%. In fact, it's worse than that because his vacuum tube is so non-linear, but that calculation can be left to the keen physics student (it will only make the apparent error even greater).
The fact that he tried a smoothed DC power supply (which is not susceptible to this measurment error) and got sensible readings, speaks volumes.
Edit: ROFL - Naudin really has surpassed himself with his MAHG v2.0
He now claims a COP of 21 - i.e. 21x as much energy out as put in. He's using a 4.8% duty cycle pulsed DC waveform.
Guess what measurement error a 4.8% duty-cycle pulse DC waveform gives when measured using Naudin's method.
Hint: Actual power is 1/D times the apparent measured power where D is the duty cycle.
He persisted for years with the Bearden MEG - a very poor quality switched-mode power supply, with an added permanent magnet (for no apparent reason). He copied the Bearden design so closely, that he even made the same mistake as Bearden. He forgot to divide by 10 when calculating the output power.
You see, he never *measured* the output power directly - it was always calculated (sometimes automatically) from voltage and current readings. Yet he forgot to consider the fact that there was a factor of 10 conversion with his circuit.
The same thing goes for the MAHG. His device 'works' on half-wave rectified DC. This is a nightmare waveform to measure power with - because it has both AC and DC components.
The methods Naudin uses (use of ammeters and voltmeters, and a simple dual channel oscilloscope) are not appropriate for measuring power which is supplied by half-wave rectified DC.
In fact using conventional tools to measure power delivered by half-wave rectified DC leads to an underestimate of power by 60% !. In other words, your equipment would tell you you had an efficiency of 250%. In fact, it's worse than that because his vacuum tube is so non-linear, but that calculation can be left to the keen physics student (it will only make the apparent error even greater).
The fact that he tried a smoothed DC power supply (which is not susceptible to this measurment error) and got sensible readings, speaks volumes.
Edit: ROFL - Naudin really has surpassed himself with his MAHG v2.0
He now claims a COP of 21 - i.e. 21x as much energy out as put in. He's using a 4.8% duty cycle pulsed DC waveform.
Guess what measurement error a 4.8% duty-cycle pulse DC waveform gives when measured using Naudin's method.
Hint: Actual power is 1/D times the apparent measured power where D is the duty cycle.
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by SchroedingersCat » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 01:40:58
I am getting so tired of people confusing high-voltage phenomena with ZPE. The lifter effect, like the 'cosmic engine', does not operate in a vacuum. If it were true ZPE, it would . These are both examples of high-voltage ionization.
Check out this site for a debunking of the lifter effect:
Lifters don't work in vacuum
At the risk of sounding like SydneyTawl; want to look into something interesting? What happened to the solar sail that was just launched and lost?
Check out this site for a debunking of the lifter effect:
Lifters don't work in vacuum
At the risk of sounding like SydneyTawl; want to look into something interesting? What happened to the solar sail that was just launched and lost?
Civilization is a personal choice.
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by threadbear » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 13:19:25
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SchroedingersCat', 'I') am getting so tired of people confusing high-voltage phenomena with ZPE. The lifter effect, like the 'cosmic engine', does not operate in a vacuum. If it were true ZPE, it would . These are both examples of high-voltage ionization.
Check out this site for a debunking of the lifter effect:
Lifters don't work in vacuum
At the risk of sounding like SydneyTawl; want to look into something interesting? What happened to the solar sail that was just launched and lost?
Check out this site for a debunking of the lifter effect:
Lifters don't work in vacuum
At the risk of sounding like SydneyTawl; want to look into something interesting? What happened to the solar sail that was just launched and lost?
They DO actually operate in a vacuum
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by Novus » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 19:11:08
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')
They DO actually operate in a vacuum
')
They DO actually operate in a vacuum
NASA seems to think they work in a vacuum too. They tested their Cosmos sail in the lab before they lost it in space. They will launch another one soon and it will be prooven even to the skeptics this does work in a vacuum. Remember Einstien had his doubters too that is until the A-bomb silenced them.
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by ChumpusRex » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 19:31:39
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')
They DO actually operate in a vacuum
')
They DO actually operate in a vacuum
NASA seems to think they work in a vacuum too. They tested their Cosmos sail in the lab before they lost it in space. They will launch another one soon and it will be prooven even to the skeptics this does work in a vacuum. Remember Einstien had his doubters too that is until the A-bomb silenced them.
Actually, the theory and experiments are quite sound. The EHD thrusters described DO NOT operate in a vacuum. The reason being that they work as molecular pumps, which push the air downwards. No air, no thrust. It's really pretty simple. Additionally, because they only work close to atmospheric pressure, their efficiency is very low - they have low thrust, and low maximum speed. Remember, that just hovering does no useful work - it's moving that performs work.
Mentioning solar sails (the Cosmos sail) is an irrelevance, as this works on a totally different principle. It captures the momentum of high energy particles expelled by the sun. There is no ZPE here.
Also an irrelevance is the ion engine being developed by NASA. This works by accelerating propellant gas molecules to extremely high energies, thereby allowing considerably greater thrust for the same volume of propellant. These engines do work in a vacuum for the simple reason that they carry their propellant gas with them in a fuel tank! In contrast to the EHD thrusters, the ion engine can have exceptionally high efficiency because it's achievable speed is so high, even though it's overall thrust is minute.
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