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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 30 Aug 2018, 20:52:07

I rafted the Rogue River and then I was in Ashland, Oregon for the Oregon Shakespeare Festival over the last couple of weeks, but I noticed that about a week ago KSA finally admitted that their much ballyhooed "IPO" of Saudi Aramco isn't going to happen any time soon. They made an official announcement that the IPO is now "postponed" indefinitely.

This reminded me of the famous saying that "Failure is only postponed success."

SO....while its true that KSA has failed to do the planned IPO of Saudi Aramco...we can also say they have merely postponed success. Their first effort to do the IPO may have failed, but maybe, possibly, perhaps someday they will start the process up again and actually get it done.

Image
Of course they'll make it right. No doubt KSA will decide to restart the IPO process in a few more years? Or maybe after a decade? Or maybe when market conditions improve? Or perhaps they'll wait until hell freezes over?

Hahahahahahahaha!

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 30 Aug 2018, 21:58:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')f course they'll make it right. No doubt KSA will decide to restart the IPO process in a few more years? Or maybe after a decade? Or maybe when market conditions improve? Or perhaps they'll wait until hell freezes over?


you probably should have stayed where you were. The IPO "process" is basically mostly completed as you have been told numerous times. The reserve reports and audits, the financial audits etc, etc are done. What hasn't been done is the paperwork submitted to the whatever exchange they might want to list on. They can decide to do that at anytime as the CEO of Aramco said in his public statement.

So unlike what you claimed earlier that it was canceled, Aramco is officially stating they are working towards a listing but they will choose the time. Of course, you can decide to ignore official statements from the company and make up your own reality, Reuters has been pretty good at that, either referencing "insiders" who actually didn't know what was going on or like CNN just making it up.

Again, why are you so concerned as to when this happens?
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 00:17:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'A')ramco is officially stating they are working towards a listing but they will choose the time.


Nope.

Your reading comprehension is really poor, isn't it?

Aramco announced they were working towards an IPO listing three years ago ---but that didn't work out. They couldn't make it happen.

The Aramco announcement a week ago said they were POSTPONING all further work on the IPO. Obviously you don't know what the word "postponing" means....haahahahahah! It means they are shelving the IPO. This is an INDEFINITE POSTPONEMENT. At the moment there is no date set for the IPO process to resume. There aren't even any firm plans for the IPO process to resume.

Pssst.....crockdoc....this announcement means Aramco has stopped the IPO process. It is POSTPONED. You dim bulb---that means they are no longer working towards doing the IPO now.

Aramco may restart the IPO process at some point in the future, but for now it is shelved.

Get it now?

Image
2016? Nope. No the Aramco IPO didn't happen in 2016 in spite of their announcement in Jan 2016 that they were doing an IPO.
2017? Nope. didn't happen then either.
2018? No way. Not a chance. KSA just announced they aren't doing it in 2018.
2019? Nope. Its postponed. Got bigger fish to fry.
2020? 2021? 2022?

Cheers!
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 10:39:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ramco announced they were working towards an IPO listing three years ago ---but that didn't work out. They couldn't make it happen.


and all along they were pointing to a 2018 target which they said in June was delayed, not canceled. Nothing officially has changed if you bothered to actually read the OFFICIAL statement from Aramco not the Rueters "oh we heard this" press piece.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Aramco announcement a week ago said they were POSTPONING all further work on the IPO. Obviously you don't know what the word "postponing" means....haahahahahah! It means they are shelving the IPO. This is an INDEFINITE POSTPONEMENT. At the moment there is no date set for the IPO process to resume. There aren't even any firm plans for the IPO process to resume.


YOu are truly either a complete idiot or just illiterate. The only official statement from Aramco was (as I posted earlier in this thread):

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')audi Arabia denied media reports that the kingdom has scrapped plans to list shares of state-owned energy giant Aramco on stock exchanges.
Khalid al-Falih, the Saudi Minister of Energy, Industry and Mineral Resources and Chairman of Saudi Aramco, said in a statement on Thursday: "The Government remains committed to the IPO of Saudi Aramco at a time of its own choosing when conditions are optimum."
"This timing will depend on multiple factors, including favorable market conditions, and a downstream acquisition which the Company will pursue in the next few months," al-Falih said.


he was further quoted as stating:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;The company, for its part, has completed its internal program for IPO preparedness," al-Falih said in his Thursday statement, adding that bylaws had been amended, and the state oil giant has been converted to a joint stock company as Aramco tries to ensure that its internal financial reporting aligns with potential listing venue requirements.

"This is all positive progress on what is a complex process, preparing the company and the Kingdom for what will ultimately be a global landmark market offering of unprecedented quality and scale," the statement said.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ramco may restart the IPO process at some point in the future, but for now it is shelved.


not according to ARAMCO, as noted from their statement.

YOu are purposefully conflating the Reuters article and the other pieces of press that are based entirely on the Reuters article with what has been said by ARAMCO. The Reuters article does not identify sources and the latest one ignores the fact that the Chairman of ARAMCO actually pointed them to his recent statement.

Bottom line is ARAMCO has not canceled the IPO process, they continue to work on it and have put themselves in a place where they can execute when they want to.
The two investment banks have not stated they have been released, given they are publicly traded companies and this would be a material event a press release would be required if that were to happen.

As to the rest of your nonsense...grow up and someone might actually take you seriously.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 12:38:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')othing officially has changed


Actually something has officially changed.

Saudi Aramco officially announced that they are indefinitely postponing their plans to do an IPO.

Your multiple posts claiming Saudi Aramco was on track to do an IPO in 201620172018 are now officially null and void and bogus.

Cheers! :lol: 8) :-D :roll:
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 15:08:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')audi Aramco officially announced that they are indefinitely postponing their plans to do an IPO.


no, they did not. IN June they announced the actual IPO would be delayed possibly until 2019 and more recently they have stated they have not canceled their plans but rather have done the work, remain committed to doing an IPO and will execute at the time that makes the most sense to them.

The quote from ARAMCO is clear they have not "postponed" any "plans". Their plans are in place, they have stated they have done the work and they will execute at a time of their "own choosing when conditions are optimum". Those plans are in place, they have not somehow been postponed, their intention is to do the IPO, just not right now.

Now if you said instead they had made a statement they had delayed the execution of an IPO until a point when they decide it is optimal timing, then that would have been different. Perhaps it is just a problem with your use of the written English language. :roll:
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 17:56:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')audi Aramco officially announced that they are indefinitely postponing their plans to do an IPO.


no, they did not.


Yes they did.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')they ....will execute at the time that makes the most sense to them.


And when exactly will that be?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')they will execute at a time of their "own choosing when conditions are optimum".


And when will that be?

---------------------------------------

You have conveniently forgotten that Saudi Aramco pledged to do the IPO in 2018 and you yourself repeated that claim on multiple occasions. Now Saudi Aramco say they won't do the IPO in 2018 but instead are postponing the IPO to some future undetermined date. That is called an indefinite postponement and that means you were utterly, completely, and totally wrong in your prediction that the IPO would be done in 2018.

Get it now?

Cheers! :-D :lol: 8) :roll:
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 18:10:01

here is what you claimed

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')audi Aramco officially announced that they are indefinitely postponing their plans to do an IPO
.

given English is apparently a second language for you lets break this down....."postponing their plans to do an IPO" is not like saying "delaying the execution of the IPO" which is what ARAMCO said they would do in June. "postponing their plans to do an IPO" is exactly like saying "currently have no plans to do an IPO" which is exactly incorrect when taken in context of what ARAMCO said just a week ago:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')audi Arabia denied media reports that the kingdom has scrapped plans to list shares of state-owned energy giant Aramco on stock exchanges.
Khalid al-Falih, the Saudi Minister of Energy, Industry and Mineral Resources and Chairman of Saudi Aramco, said in a statement on Thursday: "The Government remains committed to the IPO of Saudi Aramco at a time of its own choosing when conditions are optimum."
"This timing will depend on multiple factors, including favorable market conditions, and a downstream acquisition which the Company will pursue in the next few months," al-Falih said.


So I suggest you start quoting ARAMCO correctly.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd when exactly will that be?


apparently you do have a reading comprehension problem...."at a time of its own choosing when conditions are optimum" :roll:
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 18:20:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;postponing their plans to do an IPO" is exactly like saying "currently have no plans to do an IPO"


No its not. Postponing the IPO simply means that your claim that the IPO would get done in 2018 is bogus. The IPO will not get done in 2018....its been postponed. And since no date was set for the IPO it is an indefinite postponement.

Its certainly possible that they will restart the IPO process sometime in the future. But given their failure to do the IPO in 2018 as planned its also possible the IPO won't happen at all now. That makes the reports in the WSJ and other media sources that the IPO may be dead very interesting, as they are consistent with the fact IPO is now indefinitely postponed, with no set time or conditions for it to be restarted.

Time will tell. But for now, at least we know for sure that your claim that the IPO would happen in 2018 is totally, completely and fully bogus.

Get it now?

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 12:12:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')o its not. Postponing the IPO simply means that your claim that the IPO would get done in 2018 is bogus


Again the nuances of the English language are lost on you. But maybe this was one of your famous "typos", you know the ones you repeat several times and argue on and on about how you were right until you have to pretend they were actual a series of "typos" :roll:

First of all what you said was and I quote "Saudi Aramco officially announced that they are indefinitely postponing their plans to do an IPO

Postponing their plans and postponing the IPO are distinctly separate concepts. As I pointed out ARAMCO was very adamant they had not postponed their plans to do an IPO...they were committed to doing an IPO but at the time of their choosing.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat makes the reports in the WSJ and other media sources that the IPO may be dead very interesting, as they are consistent with the fact IPO is now indefinitely postponed, with no set time or conditions for it to be restarted.


Other than the fact that the actual official statements indicate WSJ, Rueters etc are all incorrect. But don't let the official statements get in the way of a good story for you. :roll:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut for now, at least we know for sure that your claim that the IPO would happen in 2018 is totally, completely and fully bogus.


I never claimed that. As I pointed out to you several times above I noted that ARAMCO had made an official statement in June that the IPO would be delayed as they looked at the acquisition of another company. In fact I quoted Amin Nasser the CEO as saying:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is no doubt that the potential acquisition of a strategic stake in SABIC ... will delay the IPO,
 

Up until that point in time the official statements from ARAMCO was they were targeting end of 2018.

But you seem to forget your original claims here that the IPO was canceled and that it was canceled (which it wasn't) because ARAMCO was worried about disclosure (which apparently they aren't). First you suggested it was reserve and financial disclosure which makes zero sense for several reasons (as was pointed out to you) and then you stated that ARAMCO would not be worried about being sued in NY state by survivors of 911 which also flies in the face of statements from the Saudis as well as several newspaper articles (as was pointed out to you). But changing your story and pretending it was your original argument all along seems to be your modus operandi here.

Get it now? :roll:
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 13:01:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')As I pointed out ARAMCO was .... committed to doing an IPO but at the time of their choosing.


Yes, but they previously said they were committed to doing an IPO in 2018, but then they didn't do it. The ARAMCO IPO is now indefinitely postponed and their earlier commitment to the 2018 date has proven to be empty blather.

Given ARAMCO's failure to keep their commitment to the 2018 IPO date, its not unreasonable to be skeptical about their new claims about the IPO, especially when the WSJ and other news stories report (1) there is dissension and opposition to the IPO within ARAMCO, and (2) Prince Muhammed has found a new way to get the billions he wants for KSA infrastructure development, and no longer needs the IPO to fund his plans.

What we do know is that in spite of ARAMCO's earlier claims and your comically gullible acceptance of whatever ARAMCO says, the ARAMCO IPO scheduled for 2018 isn't happening in 2018, and all your posts insisting the IPO would happen in 2018 have turned out to be utterly, totally and completely untrue.

Do you get it now?

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 16:34:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat we do know is that in spite of ARAMCO's earlier claims and your comically gullible acceptance of whatever ARAMCO says, the ARAMCO IPO scheduled for 2018 isn't happening in 2018, and all your posts insisting the IPO would happen in 2018 have turned out to be utterly, totally and completely untrue.


As compared to your accepting the unidentified sources in WSJ and Reuters press pieces? Given the current rise in "fake news" I would have thought you had more brains than that. :roll:

The fact of the matter is that the IPO process and timing is established and controlled by ARAMCO and the government of SA, not by the WSJ or Reuters. As such not accepting what ARAMCO or the Minister of Energy has to say on the subject puts you in the same place as the folks who believe NASA claims to have landed on the moon are false.

And you have proven you either don't read what people post or you are illiterate.

As I said above now 3 times I did not insist the IPO would happen in 2018....When ARAMCO announced the delay to possibly 2019 in June I pointed to that quote. Up until that point there was no indication from ARAMCO that a 2018 date would not happen.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')o you get it now?


I would respectfully suggest you cram that statement up your backside....it has become incredibly irritating given you have zero to be smug about, in fact, it merely makes you appear a bigger fool.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 16:39:35

"... committed to doing an IPO but at the time of their choosing." And that statement includes a promise to NEVER DO THE IPO if Aramco/Saudi govt decides there never comes the appropriate time to do the IPO. IOW it has promised that it may never do the IPO.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 17:03:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;... committed to doing an IPO but at the time of their choosing." And that statement includes a promise to NEVER DO THE IPO if Aramco/Saudi govt decides there never comes the appropriate time to do the IPO. IOW it has promised that it may never do the IPO.


you seem to have missed that class in Math 201 where they discussed Logic. :roll:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;The Government remains committed to the IPO of Saudi Aramco at a time of its own choosing when conditions are optimum."
"This timing will depend on multiple factors, including favorable market conditions, and a downstream acquisition which the Company will pursue in the next few months," al-Falih said.


There is no place in that statement that you can come up with a conclusion that ARAMCO promised they would not do an IPO.

Will it happen? Almost certainly if "conditions are optimum". Otherwise the Saudis would never have started down the path, spent tons of money and manhours preparing everything necessary.

Is it possible conditions will never be optimal....sure, just as it is possible that Hilary Clinton will be elected president in 2020 or Korea will destroy all their nuclear capabilities or Trump will stop tweeting self-aggrandizing twaddle. Anything is possible.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 19:34:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')There is no place in that statement that you can come up with a conclusion that ARAMCO promised they would not do an IPO.


I never said ARAMCO promised they would not do an IPO. I suggest you try reading more slowly and, if that does't work, then try saying the words out loud. It may help you understand what you are reading.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Will it happen? Almost certainly...


Thats what you said about ARAMCO doing the IPO in 2018. In post after post after post you insisted everything was on track and ARAMCO would do their IPO in 2018. However, now it is ever so clear that you were wrong. Very wrong. Wrong over and over again. You were totally and completely wrong.

Image
You were wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong about ARAMCO "certainly" doing their IPO in 2018. hahahahahahah!

I hate to break it to you, but your crystal ball is broken.

Personally, I put the odds of ARAMCO ever doing the IPO much lower then you do because (1) the WSJ and other news sources report there is opposition to doing the IPO within the leadership of ARAMCO, and (2) Prince Muhammed has found a new way to get the billions he wants for KSA infrastructure development, and no longer needs the ARAMCO IPO to happen to fund his plans, so the original rationale for doing the IPO doesn't exist any more.

Get it now?

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 22:36:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'n')ever said ARAMCO promised they would not do an IPO. 


OH boy.Apparently, I have to go back a few pages and quote from you

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he WSJ is reporting that Saudi Arabia is not going to go through with its plan to sell shares in Aramco and its oil assets

This is consistent with news reports that KSA is telling Trump its impossible for them to raise their production to bring down oil prices. 

IF KSA production can't be raised any higher, then that is big red flag. 

It suggests KSA has peaked

If KSA is now backing out of their planned IPO because they don't want show anyone else their books...

It suggests KSA oilfields are in trouble, and production is at or near the peak.



Now they are saying forget about that--- they can't do it. And whats more, forget about the IPO they've been preparing too. They're not going to do that either. They don't want anybody else to see the books or check those claims about oil reserves, don't you know, because their claims might be specious and they might get sued for lying about their oil reserves.


yes you said all that. And a number of people called you out for misinterpreting the article quoted

Kublikan said

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ooks like you took quite a few liberties in interpreting that article Plant.



Cog said

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')lanty you basically inserted YOUR opinion into why Aramco isn't going forward with their IPO


And then I said

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s has been pointed out by several folks here you just made all of this crap up. Either you have trouble with reading comprehension or you have a very vivid imagination that you like to let run rampant.
- there is no suggestion in the article that the Saudis have cancelled the IPO....you claimed it did
-there is no suggestion in the article the Saudis are worried about making reserve information public....you claimed it did

So nice try at a different reality…doesn’t work when all you have to do is go back a few pages.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hats what you said about ARAMCO doing the IPO in 2018. In post after post after post you insisted everything was on track and ARAMCO would do their IPO in 2018. However, now it is ever so clear that you were wrong. Very wrong. Wrong over and over again. You were totally and completely wrong. 

What? I said they were on track as long as ARAMCO was saying they were on track. Why would anyone who wasn’t involved in the process and willing to disclose his/her name claim something other than what ARAMCO was saying?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou were wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong about ARAMCO "certainly" doing their IPO in 2018. hahahahahahah! 

ARE YOU a complete idiot, apparently so….or at least a teenager which is part in parcel the same thing. ARAMCO said they were doing the IPO in 2019, not me and when they said it was delayed I reported that. Are you actually that brain dead?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 's')o the original rationale for doing the IPO doesn't exist any more.

the original rationale for doing the IPO beyond a capital raise was to bring Saudi Arabia into the twenty-first century as a multinational oil and gas company with upstream and downstream capabilities comparable to Exxon Mobil or Shell. That has not changed. Read MSM’s plan for 2030. And ARAMCO states they are committed to that.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 02 Sep 2018, 19:58:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')the original rationale .... was to bring Saudi Arabia into the twenty-first century as a multinational oil and gas company with upstream and downstream capabilities comparable to Exxon Mobil or Shell.


You are talking gibberish. Saudi Arabia is not a multinational oil and gas company as you claim. Saudi Arabia is a country located in the middle east.

Do you actually mean Saudi ARAMCO?

The country of Saudi ARABIA and the oil company Saudi ARAMCO are very different things. I'll explain the difference to you if I have to, but hopefully you can figure it out on your own now that I've pointed out that you are confusing these two very different things.

Glad to help as always.

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 10:57:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou are talking gibberish. Saudi Arabia is not a multinational oil and gas company as you claim. Saudi Arabia is a country located in the middle east.


OH, dear me, must have been a "typo"....hold on I'll do it again so it seems familiar to you. :roll:
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 12:27:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')OH, dear me, must have been a "typo"....


Well, strictly speaking a "typo" is a mistake in the mechanics of typing, like incorrectly typing a word or leaving out a letter or number in something that was typed. What you did isn't a typo but instead an inadvertent mistake. You mistakenly transposed Saudi Arabia with Saudi Aramco, when they aren't the same thing at all.

But thats OK.

Everyone makes mistakes and everyone makes typos...even you.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'h')old on I'll do it again so it seems familiar to you.


No need to be childish about it.

So you made an inadvertent mistake. If you want to pretend it was a typo, thats OK too. After all, you're only human, just like the rest of us. Join the crowd.

Let this be a lesson to you that everyone makes inadvertent mistakes and everyone makes typos.....even you.

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 13:03:12

Let's go back to the original statement posted here: Aramco has announced it will not do an IPO until, in its opinion, such time as condition warrant doing so. Was that not correct? If it was then Aramco HAS PROMISED that no IPO is currently planned. And won't be planned until conditions are right. And Aramco has not posted what it considers are the proper conditions or when they may ever develop.

Again, if that original statement attributable to Aramco is correct, it has clearly stated that no IPO is planned at this time. And since neither Aramco nor anyone on this site has a magic crystal ball there can be no prediction that the proper conditions will ever develop.
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