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THE Poverty Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Postby Specop_007 » Wed 20 Jul 2005, 10:02:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('entropyfails', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')Slaves?
I havent seen any for sale. When was the last shipment??

Nothing like bringing up OLD SHIT to make an argument eh?


So you are telling us that your wife doesn’t have a diamond?

The fact of the matter is that you, personally, have supported slavery. Or maybe you mined, cut, and polished the diamond yourself... I don’t know.

Not that this has much to do with Green Revolution Loans, but calling the slave trade "old shit" covers up the fact that this practice continues to this day and is supported by the current economic system. The last shipment was... um... today. It exists in both Africa and India right now.

Not that this means that people shouldn’t have to repay the loans. But if they cannot afford to pay, then the civil thing to do is to find a reasonable repayment schedule or allow defaults on the people most unable to pay. Just like we do here in the good old USA... until next month.


No no. I mean where can I go to buy a slave. None of this "But that is made by slaves".
Dont care quite frankly. My shirt has a tag "Made in China" and my shoes a "Made in Mexico". Are those made by slaves?
I will agree finding reasonable payment alternatives isnt a bad idea though.

That is correct sir, my wife does not have a diamond. In fact....I dont *think* we have a natrual made diamond anywhere in the house although I'm sure my wife could pull out one from somewhere and prove me wrong.

In fact, BOTH of our rings cost 30 bucks off Ebay. There simple silver bands. Thats it. No marking, nothing special. Mine has stretch marks on it where the asshat resizer screwed it up even.

I told the wife before the wedding she could have a nice ring (Still wouldnt have been diamond) or she could have a house. She chose a house. So, instead of dumping 5 grand on a rock we put that and more into a house.

Smart girl. Might be why I married her. 8)
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Postby Macsporan » Wed 20 Jul 2005, 21:32:47

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy.

---Shakespeare.
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Postby entropyfails » Fri 22 Jul 2005, 10:25:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')No no. I mean where can I go to buy a slave. None of this "But that is made by slaves".
Dont care quite frankly. My shirt has a tag "Made in China" and my shoes a "Made in Mexico". Are those made by slaves?
I will agree finding reasonable payment alternatives isnt a bad idea though.


Please. If you go acclimate yourself with the locals (read buy off) in some of these places you can buy a slave. Not “low wages” but a person who has to do work for free. Saying this no longer exists has no basis in fact. It does and people suffer for it, today. Again, this had little to do with debt relief, but you of all people should realize that some real assholes still exist on this world.

So while the more institutional forms of slavery have been eliminated, the practice still exists today. Get your head out of the sand on this issue. You just press this to “be a conservative.”

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')I told the wife before the wedding she could have a nice ring (Still wouldnt have been diamond) or she could have a house. She chose a house. So, instead of dumping 5 grand on a rock we put that and more into a house.

Smart girl. Might be why I married her. 8)


*grin* Definitely a wise choice! Good to know that some people in the world haven’t lost all their marbles over a small chunk of carbon.
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Postby Specop_007 » Fri 22 Jul 2005, 11:27:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('entropyfails', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')No no. I mean where can I go to buy a slave. None of this "But that is made by slaves".
Dont care quite frankly. My shirt has a tag "Made in China" and my shoes a "Made in Mexico". Are those made by slaves?
I will agree finding reasonable payment alternatives isnt a bad idea though.


Please. If you go acclimate yourself with the locals (read buy off) in some of these places you can buy a slave. Not “low wages” but a person who has to do work for free. Saying this no longer exists has no basis in fact. It does and people suffer for it, today. Again, this had little to do with debt relief, but you of all people should realize that some real assholes still exist on this world.

So while the more institutional forms of slavery have been eliminated, the practice still exists today. Get your head out of the sand on this issue. You just press this to “be a conservative.”


I will agree slavery does still exist. But to say its because of America as some do is *extremely* narrowminded and flat out ignorant.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')I told the wife before the wedding she could have a nice ring (Still wouldnt have been diamond) or she could have a house. She chose a house. So, instead of dumping 5 grand on a rock we put that and more into a house.

Smart girl. Might be why I married her. 8)


*grin* Definitely a wise choice! Good to know that some people in the world haven’t lost all their marbles over a small chunk of carbon.


Carbon is the most common substance. Why get excited about a little chunk of the stuff? :)

I've actually been looking at getting a new wedding band. Mine is, well, shit. Thinking of maybe titanium. You can get a real nice looking titanium band for around 150-500. Which isnt bad considering the cost of gold or platinum. And me, being a former machinist, have more appreciation of titanium then I do gold or platinum.
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U.S. poverty rate rises 4th straight year

Postby BabyPeanut » Wed 31 Aug 2005, 00:25:54

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/08/30/news/census.php
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U').S. poverty rate rises 4th straight year
The Associated Press

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 31, 2005

WASHINGTON The U.S. poverty rate rose to 12.7 percent of the population last year, its fourth consecutive annual increase, the Census Bureau said Tuesday.
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FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby vision-master » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 13:33:54

2008 HHS Poverty Guidelines.

Lower 48 States - $14,000 for two person family.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/08poverty.shtml
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby vision-master » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 14:44:45

My brother is close to rock bottom. Here's the scoop.

Cash assistance - you can't have assets over $1,000. If under that you can get $200 Month! WOW.......

Food Stamps - you can't have assets over $2,000. If under that you can get about $150 Month. Steak every night baby!

Energy assistance - $600 year. Better cut your own wood and hope the $600 helps with the ele bill.


Don't welfare sound good. :razz:
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby gnm » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 14:52:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')Energy assistance - $600 year. Better cut your own wood and hope the $600 helps with the ele bill.


I pay less than that over the course of the whole winter for heat and electric combined.

-G
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby Pops » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 15:04:31

We are getting close – might make it if based on after tax income.

Interesting how everything is relative…


But like the song says; "we're still here so everything is OK"
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby Ludi » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 15:05:37

Good for you Pops, I hope that means you're successfully reducing your need to earn. :)
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby I_Like_Plants » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 15:43:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'M')y brother is close to rock bottom. Here's the scoop.

Cash assistance - you can't have assets over $1,000. If under that you can get $200 Month! WOW.......

Food Stamps - you can't have assets over $2,000. If under that you can get about $150 Month. Steak every night baby!

Energy assistance - $600 year. Better cut your own wood and hope the $600 helps with the ele bill.


Don't welfare sound good. :razz:


I get $154/month Food Stamps, no cash. No heat assistance.

4 months a year, hard to travel, no work, basically hiberation. I have one more month. Right now it's snowy and windy outside.

I wish I were rich enough to afford to live in town, I could get a job washing dishes! That would be sweet, they give ya free leftovers you know....

The poverty line for an individual is around $10k a year, I think. I could live on that, even in the Bay Area. In fact once I know I can make that princely sum, chances are good I'll head back there. Just because there's public transpo, that plus a bike and you're king of the road, man. Farmer's markets every day of the week, and most days of the week in the winter - draw faces, sing songs, you name it. Scrounge and dumpster dive, and life is sweet.

There are a lot of Americans who wish they were all the way up to the Poverty Line.
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby Revi » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 16:00:30

14 thousand is tough to live on here in Maine. A lot of people do it, but it's no picnic. It costs 3 thousand just to heat a place through the winter. It costs around 5 thousand to keep a car on the road, and eating is around 2400 even if you eat a lot of beans. That leaves just $3600 for rent and everything else.

The poor will be walking soon.

We walked around and gave out CFL's in a tough part of Waterville, Maine yesterday. It appeared that a lot of houses were not occupied. There were heating bills stuffed in the door of a few houses.

I think that the poor are beginning to move out of Maine. It's too expensive to live here now. Those of us in the lower middle class are beginning to notice it too. We're next...
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby Pops » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 16:34:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'G')ood for you Pops, I hope that means you're successfully reducing your need to earn. :)

Well, I find some of my rules are enacted faster than others!

But like I told Susan about the kitchen remodel – It’s a process!
:-D
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby I_Like_Plants » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 16:34:32

Pops it's pre-tax income.

I've lived on $7000 a year and did it OK, but a room to rent was like $200, no car, very cheap food, and no heating etc - rooming houses include that in the rent. And it was a warm area. Very very different mode of life than what's considered "American".
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby Princess » Tue 05 Feb 2008, 22:44:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'T')here are a lot of Americans who wish they were all the way up to the Poverty Line.

*raises hand*

Like me. I made nothing last year. Nada. Zippo. Zilch. I'd love to have made up to the Poverty Line.
(Caring for my mother, however: Priceless)

Mom and I own our home outright (our safety blanket). Mom gets Social Security, but we are well below the Federal poverty guidelines. In California. :(

It sucks! [/pity party]
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby Fiddlerdave » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 07:15:37

The disabled and elderly are the first to be sacrificed in inflation runups. I imagine the suicide rate for them is rising nicely, but of course, we'd never keep statistics like that in the most powerful nation on earth.
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby vision-master » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 11:05:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fiddlerdave', 'T')he disabled and elderly are the first to be sacrificed in inflation runups. I imagine the suicide rate for them is rising nicely, but of course, we'd never keep statistics like that in the most powerful nation on earth.


They all got a 2.5% increase for 2008.

Federal and State tax for them is normally very low too.

Medicare costs about $90 a Month and Plan D can be had for about $100 Month.

No coummuting costs either. :razz:

They may be better off than the working stiffs.
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby Flowerr » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 12:45:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Princess', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'T')here are a lot of Americans who wish they were all the way up to the Poverty Line.

*raises hand*

Like me. I made nothing last year. Nada. Zippo. Zilch. I'd love to have made up to the Poverty Line.
(Caring for my mother, however: Priceless)

Mom and I own our home outright (our safety blanket). Mom gets Social Security, but we are well below the Federal poverty guidelines. In California. :(

It sucks! [/pity party]


So why didn't you make anything?
I could get some kind of job in 3 days doing something, even if it is cleaning toilets at a 7-11

You could go to the local nursing home, get a CNA license in 4 weeks and make 8 dollars an hour for as long as many hours as you want.
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby mekrob » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 13:45:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The disabled and elderly are the first to be sacrificed in inflation runups. I imagine the suicide rate for them is rising nicely, but of course, we'd never keep statistics like that in the most powerful nation on earth.


In a way, that is true:

CBS

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o CBS News did an investigation - asking all 50 states for their suicide data, based on death records, for veterans and non-veterans, dating back to 1995. Forty-five states sent what turned out to be a mountain of information.

And what it revealed was stunning.

In 2005, for example, in just those 45 states, there were at least 6,256 suicides among those who served in the armed forces. That’s 120 each and every week, in just one year.


This is about veterans and active duty (but they make up a small segment). They have a suicide rate that's twice as high as all citizens. And considering that a great deal of US citizens have served in the military at some point or another, then the suicide rate for non-vets is even lower.
---

But let's see about me:

$600 a month for rent and utilities.
$100 a month for food.
$50 a month for gas and bus fare.
$500 a year for school supplies and clothes.

Around $9500 a year. Nothing else I can think of. No insurance, no tuition, no fees (or taxes). Do I count as poor? It'd be hard to say so given how great I feel and live.

This is how much I spend. I make a little more, but still right around the poverty line. I saved about a grand in the past year.

Next year, I'm hoping to get down to just buying a bike and no gas, so I'll come out even, but that bike should be a nice investment for the future. I can probably loss a few hundred on books, clothes and food (pssh, only rich people have sauce with spaghetti or sugar with their porridge).
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Re: FYI: USA 2008 Federal Poverty Guidelines

Postby I_Like_Plants » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 15:52:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fiddlerdave', 'T')he disabled and elderly are the first to be sacrificed in inflation runups. I imagine the suicide rate for them is rising nicely, but of course, we'd never keep statistics like that in the most powerful nation on earth.


We just need a movement to encourage them to "check out in style" by taking some of the rich with 'em. :twisted:
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