[Ibon]

When I was in the world of commerce from 1989-2004 my objective was from the beginning was to exit as soon as possible in order to create a nature reserve. I was regional director for Latin America for a European medical device manufacturer and during the last 10 years switched from a corporate manager to a consultant with my own company that I sold to 2 employees in 2005.

Some folks love the competition, love the game, want to win that big contract, get high on negotiations and growing a business. I was successful at this but my passion for the natural world was always greater and I planned my business trips in Ecuador, Peru, Argentina, Chile, Peru etc. so that I could go watching birds or hiking trails in national parks within short distances of the capitals of the countries I was travelling in. I was always an odd ball, my representatives thought I was strange, but through the years I ended up showing many folks natural areas in their countries that they never visited themselves and they thanked me for it.

Anyway, when the wealth accumulated was enough to pull the plug on the world of commerce I did it in a heartbeat, never had any regrets and it saved my soul. Winning contracts and negotiating business in Latin America for almost 20 years required to play by the rules of each countries corrupt mechanisms and thanks to my Italian mafia blood I was good at it. But slowly through the years negotiating bribes and kickbacks got tiring and in the end even left me feeling "dirty" in spite of a nice bank account.

I don't plan for retirement, I don't how many years these aging bones can continue negotiating the 4WD road, I have no interest of deferring to my last aging years how I live today and where I put my assets. I am 60 years old and living day to day for the joy of being here where I am. I don't care about the future and how I will manage one day if I have to leave this place that runs deep in my bones.

[evilgenius]

I don't know how much is enough. I think that is determined by an individual's make up. I do think, as some have alluded, that we don't consciously have a relationship with our inner selves. We aren't born with that, at least. It takes time, and life, to come to that understanding of ourselves. Along the way most people seek the affirmation of others, mostly to gain that understanding, but that is a risky game. Others don't know any better than you do, and they haven't started out in any better lead. Fixation upon the rich and famous is a symptom of that. We think they must know better, but mostly their success comes from how well they've been able to play others, not connect with themselves. The world is made of marketing, much of it, even down to some very basic things people believe. It's gotten worse in recent decades because those who pursue this line have greater tools at their disposal. They can know you better than you know yourself because they have the data and a means to compile it. Your only weapon against them is your self-discovery.

Incidentally, I've believed for a while now that the 'adversary,' some call it the devil, is that inner nature that we are not born connected to consciously. The very thing we struggle against if we seek to impose a moral life upon ourselves. It does measure itself in comparison to others, and it doesn't mind if it is wrong. It wants what it wants and the only way to change that is to know it and integrate it into our conscious make up. It's a very childlike thing because that integration takes going back to the kind of inner development we usually only experience as children. I think that is why Jesus said, "Suffer the children to come onto me, for of such is the kingdom of heaven." The 'world,' as it has been referred to in religious literature in reference to something to refrain from, in this context is that thing which is driven by our unruled inner natures as a collective, seeing as how our inner natures are mostly, although not entirely, similar enough to produce that collective.

[Newfie]

Funny that; although I’m an atheist I find much I agree with from religion. That evil within we struggle with when considering morals? Yes I get that.

[evilgenius]

In the same manner, taking up one's cross every day is likely in reference to how our inner natures think they will die if they don't get what they want. When we get outmaneuvered in traffic we think it is death to be a car length behind. When we don't have the latest phone we think we will die. When we can't dress like we think is stylish we feel left out. The inner nature can talk to us, but the dialogue is one expressed, usually, in terms of emotion. There is a way to communicate to it as such as well, and it does involve that death it fears. Prove to it that the wisdom of deciding against its wishes has merit. Prove to it that free will, which is the ability to choose a moral construct over just doing what you feel is right at the time, actually does work. Be willing to change that context, if it really doesn't work, rather than simply punishing the inner nature for wanting at all.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ')Be willing to change that context, if it really doesn't work, rather than simply punishing the inner nature for wanting at all.

[Cog]

It all goes back to a simple concept. Don't worry about how rich or how poor others are. Worry about yourself and how to improve your lot in life.

[Plantagenet]

Ever since Americans invented the idea of “retirement” the question of how much is enough has become more complicated.

Its relatively easy to be happy when you’re working, even in a low-wage job, because you know the money will keep rolling in as long as you’ve got a job. You can adjust your lifestyle to fit your income. Easy Peazy.

But when a person retires the equation changes. You have to have enough money to not only live well today, but to live well tomorrow and continue to live well 20 or 30 years into the future—-all without working.

Since none of us know what the cost of the living will be 20 or 30 years into the future, it is impossible to know how much is enough when it comes to retirement.

Cheers!

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'E')ver since Americans invented the idea of “retirement” the question of how much is enough has become more complicated.

Its relatively easy to be happy when you’re working, even in a low-wage job, because you know the money will keep rolling in as long as you’ve got a job. You can adjust your lifestyle to fit your income. Easy Peazy.

[Cog]

Being smart should be rewarded while being stupid should be punished. Why should my wallet be lightened because others "spend all you can earn and borrow and never plan more than a week or so ahead?"

[Ibon]

Most of the world does not save for the future and actually lives day to day or month to month with nothing reserved for retirement.

On this topic there is a trade off. Some of you may not understand this but you live with far less anxiety when you are NOT saving for retirement because you are not deferring your well being to some far off date and worrying about some debilitating illness and how you will pay for this and how you will manage in that there old peoples home toward the end of your life and if and when you do make it there you are physically so compromised due to old age that you are only partially aware of the poop you just made in your pants.

The trade off is that you wont have the money to pay for fancy procedures to extend your life. You will simply die of that cardiac disease, cancer or stroke. No extended life for you, you usually exit your life early.

I think this is a trade off worth it. Live fully for the moment and die a bit earlier without fancy medical technology keeping you around and not even notice it when the nurse lifts your balls up to clean the shit you just made in your pants.

It's your choice.

[Newfie]

Some research shows a very strong correlation between deferred gratification and general success in life. So, when you eat dinner, do you eat your favorite stuff first or last?

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'B')eing smart should be rewarded while being stupid should be punished. Why should my wallet be lightened because others "spend all you can earn and borrow and never plan more than a week or so ahead?"

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '.').....
........... These cultural values will not fly on the descent when we are managing increasing constraints.

I think it is correct that culture is largely influenced by economics. The individualism expressed by Cog is a hallmark of the economic abundance of the last 150 years. Upcoming constraints will strain this ideal of individual liberty to pursue wealth regardless of the consequences to the rest of society. This was possible when we had wide open frontiers and abundant energy and wealth. This will not fly in the future when constraints obligate more regulation. This has nothing to do with promoting a more "socialist" agenda. It is simply a question of how a society will be obligated to organize itself with less wealth, a weaker economy and the need to maintain social stability.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '.').. you live with far less anxiety when you are NOT saving for retirement because you are not deferring your well being to some far off date and worrying about some debilitating illness and how you will pay for this.

The trade off is that you wont have the money to pay for fancy procedures to extend your life. You will simply die of that cardiac disease, cancer or stroke. No extended life for you, you usually exit your life early.

I think this is a trade off worth it.

[KaiserJeep]

Nobody reaches 65 without retirement unless they were working under the table jobs that did not pay FICA taxes (i.e. Social Security). It may not be comfortable, but it's a far cry from starvation.

I fully understand that problems exist where the cost of living is very high. After all, I live in Silly Valley. I have seen older folks on SS only income having to choose between living in a trailer or moving out of the valley, as the cost of living is average outside of the SF Bay area and the LA Basin.

But I mean REALLY, with wages as high as around here, you have to be a fool, or somehow unlucky, to end up with no retirement income other than SS. (It probably helps to be married to an accountant like me.)

[vtsnowedin]

I spent my working life in middle class jobs at middle (barely) class pay. The early SS check I'm getting now is a bit above $50 per day and if I had to I could get by on that alone without the retirement from my employer. Of course I could not live in San Francisco on that meager income or make mortgage payments from it but being aware of that I didn't buy houses, boats,or RVs that had payment ends into my sixties.
A little planning goes a long way.

[Newfie]

Let’s say you have a million in fixed income at 3% annuity. That’s pretty good these days I think. anyway that generates $30,000/year. Which is just a little more than you get at the top SS bracket for a “normal” 65 yo retiree.

Getting $15,000/yr is like a half million in the bank.

We do OK in retirement because we both get SS, have rent from 4 apartments, have 401k savings, and a couple of small (very small) annuities. But also we live pretty cheap. We very seldom go into a marina and hardly use a mooring ball. We mostly eat in. We do have operating and maintenance expenses, and travel. We rent a car once in a while.

I consider us very lucky. We see other folks who appear to have more, much more than we do, but I’ve no idea of their debt load.

Looking at retirement savings in the USA one wonders how those folks get by.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'L')et’s say you have a million in fixed income at 3% annuity. That’s pretty good these days I think. anyway that generates $30,000/year. Which is just a little more than you get at the top SS bracket for a “normal” 65 yo retiree.

Getting $15,000/yr is like a half million in the bank.

We do OK in retirement because we both get SS, have rent from 4 apartments, have 401k savings, and a couple of small (very small) annuities. But also we live pretty cheap. We very seldom go into a marina and hardly use a mooring ball. We mostly eat in. We do have operating and maintenance expenses, and travel. We rent a car once in a while.

I consider us very lucky. We see other folks who appear to have more, much more than we do, but I’ve no idea of their debt load.

Looking at retirement savings in the USA one wonders how those folks get by.

[vtsnowedin]

Back to the original question.
How about having enough money in the checking account and or coming into it so that when any normal bill comes in you can just pay it with out checking your balance first.
I've lived a lot of years raising children when that was just a dream but am getting there in my dotage.
Of course you have to have enough sense to not take on bills in excess of the income stream coming in.

[KaiserJeep]

Correct. You need to enter retirement with the house paid off, no mortgage, and already owning at least one durable automobile, likely to last the same couple of decades that you will last. I like Jeeps, myself.

Beyond that, you need to own some additional real estate in the form of fertile and unused land. That's my plan, anyways. Desireable real estate that people want to own, is in limited supply, they quit making it a few billion years ago. It can be used as living space, or if times get tough as they did in the Great Depression, a few acres of crops, a woodlot, a well, and a few chickens is a time-honored survival scheme.

I personally believe that real estate is a good hedge against currency inflation. Perhaps you believe in gold or Bitcoins instead. Get it right, and your genes will persist upon the planet.

IOW, you "won" the Game of Life.