[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', 'W')hen the first quantum computer comes online, bitcoin will go POOF.

[EnergyUnlimited]

It may well be using too much much energy but my son is getting very rich out of it.

@Tanada
Smart cards won't survive EMP or decent CME, eg Carrington like event.
If current web collapsed, it will be also probably for the same reason. Little Fat Man in NK may see to it if sufficiently provoked.

@Outcast Searcher
This would require 5000-10000 q-bits quantum computers. Few years in the future, 10 years at most if BAU last this long.
However there are cryptocurrencies which *are* quantum ready, eg quantum computation approach is of no use in breaking their codes.
Example is NEO.

[EdwinSm]

So we finally get an energy based currency ????

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EdwinSm', 'S')o we finally get an energy based currency ????

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')
@Outcast Searcher
This would require 5000-10000 q-bits quantum computers. Few years in the future, 10 years at most if BAU last this long.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')However there are cryptocurrencies which *are* quantum ready, eg quantum computation approach is of no use in breaking their codes.
Example is NEO.

[Subjectivist]

Kaiser you make Bitcoin sound like Aluminum. You know, the metal they refer to as “Congealed Electricity” because it takes so much current to refine Alumina into Aluminum?

[KaiserJeep]

A blockchain grows longer each time it changes hands, and each transaction is slower than the last and consumes a bit more energy. Not to mention that they are subject to being destroyed if the blockchains vanish because the computer loses power or network connectivity.

The only "good idea' in bitcoin is to be independant of any government. All other aspects are bad ideas.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')However there are cryptocurrencies which *are* quantum ready, eg quantum computation approach is of no use in breaking their codes.
Example is NEO.

[EnergyUnlimited]

@OS
Current quantum computers are dealing with ~20 q-bits.
5000-10000 q-bits would be required to intercept bitcoin payments in real time. This is according to my son who is a geek in it and also a very successful bitcoin trader.

NEO is quantum ready because its algoritms of encryption are *not* relying on factorizing of large numbers like in case of bitcoin but on solving other mathematical hard problems where quantum computing does not bring so much of advantage.

Sophisticated quantum computers are not yet around, but their advantages and limitations dictated by physics of quantum computation are rather well understood.

You should also notice that blockchain technology is on the brink of significant upgrade and *OUT OF BLOCK* transactions on bitcoin have already been tested.
If this is scaleable, then so called *lightning network* will give new lease of life to bitcoin.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'A') blockchain grows longer each time it changes hands, and each transaction is slower than the last and consumes a bit more energy. Not to mention that they are subject to being destroyed if the blockchains vanish because the computer loses power or network connectivity.

The only "good idea' in bitcoin is to be independant of any government. All other aspects are bad ideas.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '[')size=200]The Ridiculous Amount of Energy It Takes to Run Bitcoin[/size]
Running Bitcoin uses a small city’s worth of electricity. Intel and others want to make a more sustainable blockchain.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')itcoin “miners” are electromagnetic alchemists, effectively turning megawatt-hours of electricity into the world’s fastest-growing currency. Their intensive computational activity cryptographically secures the virtual currency, approves transactions, and, in the process, creates new bitcoins for the miners, as payment.

And it does another thing, too: It uses an absolutely stunning amount of power. The ever-expanding racks of processors used by miners already consume as much electricity as a small city. It’s a problem that experts say is bad and getting worse.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Here is a proper research paper dealing with risks to bitcoin and other cryptos posed by quantum computers and also with available remedies.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1710.10377.pdf

[KaiserJeep]

FWIW, quantum computing and cryptocurrencies been debated and discussed at length in my IEEE and Computer Society publications.

Quantum computing is an intriging IDEA. But circuitry for quantum devices exists only in the laboratory. As with cryogenic conventional microelectronics (which have existed since the 1980s) this technology may or may not and probably won't make it into production any time soon.

It is a safe bet however that electronics of whatever basic tech will continue to get denser, more capable, and use less power while producing less heat. I updated my 10+ year old E-reader to a Samsung tablet at Christmas, it has an 8-core CPU, a fast clock speed, more memory than the PC I am typing this on, a display that surpasses HDTV, two cameras, a microphone, stereo speakers, etc., and cost me $189 at Costco. The wife got a new iPad that similarly surpasses her old one, for less than half what the old one cost. Both offer 10-12 hours of use between charges, since that is not enough, I have a portable USB battery...

My point would be that cryptocurrencies are new and interesting, but the speculation and price appreciation are probably not justifiable by any rational standard. Although secure today, blockchain technology may well not be secure tomorrow, and the value MAY vanish overnight. I certainly do not own any of these Bitcoins or any variant, nor do I intend to.

I do still practice safe computing. I do not expose credit card numbers on any mobile device because of KRACK. I reserve one card for online use alone, the others I never use for such. Even though my new tablet and the wife's new iPad both have KRACK updates, they are still vulnerable until the last WiFi access point on the planet has been updated - I'll never use them for purchasing again. Online purchases are mad at a single PC with a current set of major brand name security suite software.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '@')OS
Current quantum computers are dealing with ~20 q-bits.
5000-10000 q-bits would be required to intercept bitcoin payments in real time. This is according to my son who is a geek in it and also a very successful bitcoin trader.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')But getting to 5000 or 10000 in a few years or even ten years seems COMPLETELY contradictory to the most aggressive expectations I found of IBM selling 50 qubit quantum computers in a few or perhaps ten years, if things go well.

[KaiserJeep]

EU, i just made the point that quantum computers do not exist, and may never. In case you did not know this, I am a EE who retired after a 38 year career at HP, designing computers. I am also still a member of both the IEEE and the Computer Society.

Quantum computers do not exist anywhere. Basic quantum devices are laboratory toys that probably will never make it out of the lab. Papers discussing the software and the capabilities of non-existent machines are fun to read - I have been an SF fan since I was a teenager.

There are brand names for both ordinary hardware and ordinary software that include the meaningless stream of characters "Q-u-a-n-t-u-m". That's about as concise a summary as I can make.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')Bitcoins are vanishing when passwords (private keys) are lost. Computer crash will not destroy your bitcoins. You can access them from *any* computer, as long as you have your private key at hand. Hence they are for example quite resistant to confiscation. Taking away your computer won't do if your private key is not recorded on it.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'E')U, i just made the point that quantum computers do not exist, and may never. In case you did not know this, I am a EE who retired after a 38 year career at HP, designing computers. I am also still a member of both the IEEE and the Computer Society.

Quantum computers do not exist anywhere. Basic quantum devices are laboratory toys that probably will never make it out of the lab. Papers discussing the software and the capabilities of non-existent machines are fun to read - I have been an SF fan since I was a teenager.

There are brand names for both ordinary hardware and ordinary software that include the meaningless stream of characters "Q-u-a-n-t-u-m". That's about as concise a summary as I can make.