[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')ou should know Newfie that federal pay and benefits have outstripped the private sector on average and did so some time ago. Unemployment is paid through an insurance program and not by me. When the laid off federal workers decide to go back to work, there are always some burger flipping openings if they get bored staring at walls.

Cutting the federal bureaucracy down to size is a very good thing. Return things to the state level where the politicians are more answerable to their constituents.

[Cog]

No, the purpose of government is not to redistribute wealth no matter what you have been told by the social justice warriors. The purpose of the government is to protect my rights. Those inalienable rights being life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. All else it does is an infringement on those rights in some way or the other.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'N')o, the purpose of government is not to redistribute wealth no matter what you have been told by the social justice warriors. The purpose of the government is to protect my rights. Those inalienable rights being life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. All else it does is an infringement on those rights in some way or the other.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')
Leave the jingoism in the schoolyard. Let's keep this an intelligent discussion of ideas.

[Cog]

This is actually a fairly easy thing for government to do Newfie. The government stays out of the way of the business community by cutting regulations, lowering taxes, and discouraging sloth by not rewarding it. Humans have an instinctive sense of self-preservation. They like to eat.

Already with the cut in corporate rates in the USA, the EU and Australia are complaining that this makes them uncompetitive with the USA in global trade. When money comes flooding into the USA, jobs and capital will come with it. We already have a seventeen year low unemployment rate of 4.1%. That can drop even lower. This does not mean the work will be meaningful or enjoyable but it will be available.

But bottom line is the government does not create jobs. It creates an environment in which jobs can be created by capitalists. You are responsible to feed yourself to the best of your ability. That is not the role of government no matter how hard that idea is pushed.

[Newfie]

I do think the government creates many jobs, and so do you, because you campaign for their removal. I frequently point to the many thousands of medical records and medical insurance jobs that exist because our governments policies. TSA (Thousands Standing Around) is another example of government created jobs, more direct.

Yes I get where you are coming from. And there is much we agree upon. I have turned from being a convienced globalist to a deep cynic. But somewhere you and I disconnect.

I see no good in increased growth. And I see that the government needs to keep the populace feed or risk its own demise. This means the ultra wealthy need to share some of their cash flow in order to sustain order and internal peace. The government is the mechanism they use to do that.

And I don’t think there is a committee or directorate, it’s just sort of evolved that way thru human nature.

[GHung]

I guess Cog thinks we're idiots who don't know that government capital redistribution programs are one of the best things to happen to capitalism, even though he's been skimming off of those schemes for years, considering the way he brags about his investments. Government handouts increase the velocity of money significantly, and recipients spend that money back into the economy where people who don't work for it stick out their own little safety nets and pocket chunks of it without having to do a damn thing.

Just buy stocks, etc, and take your cut, eh, Coggo? Meanwhile, those corporations you invest in use their tax breaks and zero interest loans (which those "handout recipients" end up paying back at some point, somehow) to boost your stock prices and dividends. That's tough on guys like you Cog; really tough.

[Cog]

Risk to capital, which is what stock investing is, is rewarded in the form of dividends and stock appreciation. It does not always work out that way since people do lose money in the stock market, while others gain. Life is risk. To say an investor does nothing and the money just flows into his pocket, it to not understand how risk of capital works.

Many companies fail and fortunes are lost. Enron and Bear Stearns are two recent examples. Over-reach, fraud, not understanding trends, etc are all things that occur in the corporate world.

If you are fortunate enough to have a good job, you trade your labor for capital in excess of what you consume to live. You can do anything with that excess capital. You can buy toys, land, put it under a mattress, or you can invest it in the equity markets. Its up to you and it should be up to you since its your capital to play with. How were Newfie and Ibon able to afford to purchase their dreams of boats and mountain retreats? They traded their labor for the excess capital to do so.

If you don't like the corporate world, then start your own deal. Work for yourself if you believe its easy to do. I can assure you its not which is why a lot of people are very comfortable in trading huge chunks of their life to a corporation so they can use the excess capital to do other more pleasant things.

[GHung]

I didn't say I didn't like the corporate world. I just don't like people who dance around subjects and can't admit they need government as much as welfare moms do. They're scared to death that people will figure out that parasitism runs the entire scale of income brackets.

By-in-large, the best human beings I've hung out with didn't have a pot to piss in, while some of the worst had everything, at least, convinced themselves they did.

You don't know what real risk is, Cog. That's my take.

[ROCKMAN]

And jumping back to the theme of the thread. I know of few people how have picked rural vs urban lifestyles based upon any benefit other then one: employment. The vast majority of urban dwellers I know have zero employment opportunities in a rural area. And I do now more then a few urban dwellers that drive 20,000 miles (or more) every year for their "urban" job. And often in heavy traffic. I have also met almost now rural workers (including those working for oil field service companies) that live in urban areas.

[Newfie]

Correct, that’s where the jobs are. And I know a bunch of folks who spend most of most weeks commuting by airplane and living out of a suitcase. (Funny spellcheck “corrected” that to “shitcase”. More appropriate.). Did too much of that myself.

Maybe it has more to do with how comfortable you feel in a crowd. I know some folks who just LOVE the city, they want to feel the flow of humanity wrapping around them. Maybe if you grow up in the herd you become accustomed to it.

That’s not me.

[Cog]

Suburbia was the compromise that allowed you to have good paying jobs in the city and not having to live with the crime, taxes, congestion, and horrible schools in the urban centers. For most of us it has worked out pretty well.

[vtsnowedin]

A lot of small businessmen make a good living servicing the needs of suburbanites and spend every workday in the burbs and usually live there as well. It ranges from the guys that mow the lawns and plow the drives to those that repair or replace your roof shingles every so often. And if you have paid a plumbers or electrican's bill lately you know that they are not doing it for cheap. There is also things like daycare centers, schools, and corner markets , spas and shops that are big employers along with your local dentist and doctor's offices. A lot of the residents of a suburb don't commute all the way into the urban area to work.

[Newfie]

That’s all service industry. Where is the primary industry?

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'T')hat’s all service industry. Where is the primary industry?

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'T')hat’s all service industry. Where is the primary industry?

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')
Leave the jingoism in the schoolyard. Let's keep this an intelligent discussion of ideas.

[vtsnowedin]

Yes and the same "primary" rock quarry that supplies aggregates to highway construction concrete central mix plants and asphalt road paving plants also serve the house foundation builders and driveway pavers. Often it is the same crew or truck driver just delivering to a different address.
And behind that is a cement kiln and a oil refinery supplying the cements for both plants.

[Cog]

People think its jingoism when you repeat back to them exactly what the signers of the Declaration and the Constitution thought the role of government was.

But I expect nothing much from people who want to elevate the common beasts of the field to that of humanity. They value nothing that is important to me.