[onlooker]

Tanada with all due respect and I do subscribe to what you just said. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. However, my inquiry is simply this. Does not Energy provide a different context in which Economics will act and react. For energy is the prime mover of economic activity. So the ETP is arguing that as Net Energy or energy left over from the entire Energy Acquisition process becomes less, this will and must stifle real Demand. So, at that point the cues of supply/demand interaction and the corresponding price break down given that these classical economic axioms cannot address the problem posed by an Economy starved of its fuel to function. So, the interaction of a failing Oil Industry and a failing General Economy will reinforce each other and relentlessly bring each other down regardless of what supply/demand price signals exist.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')anada with all due respect and I do subscribe to what you just said. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. However, my inquiry is simply this. Does not Energy provide a different context in which Economics will act and react. For energy is the prime mover of economic activity. So the ETP is arguing that as Net Energy or energy left over from the entire Energy Acquisition process becomes less, this will and must stifle real Demand. So, at that point the cues of supply/demand interaction and the corresponding price break down given that these classical economic axioms cannot address the problem posed by an Economy starved of its fuel to function. So, the interaction of a failing Oil Industry and a failing General Economy will reinforce each other and relentlessly bring each other down regardless of what supply/demand price signals exist.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Dup, due to some general SQL failure for "too many threads", where I thought the previous post didn't occur.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')anada with all due respect and I do subscribe to what you just said. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. However, my inquiry is simply this. Does not Energy provide a different context in which Economics will act and react. For energy is the prime mover of economic activity. So the ETP is arguing that as Net Energy or energy left over from the entire Energy Acquisition process becomes less, this will and must stifle real Demand. So, at that point the cues of supply/demand interaction and the corresponding price break down given that these classical economic axioms cannot address the problem posed by an Economy starved of its fuel to function. So, the interaction of a failing Oil Industry and a failing General Economy will reinforce each other and relentlessly bring each other down regardless of what supply/demand price signals exist.

[Tanada]

Pstarr see above reply to Onlooker.

[onlooker]

Thanks for the reply T. So, I do think you have faith that EV's will address the critical transportation sector in being a somewhat adequate replacement for Oil and the internal combustion engine. So, while all you say makes sense, all of us here have been debating the energy issues for some time. We have difference of opinion of how effective other energy sources can be in maintaing the integrity of our world civilization. So, I do believe the next few years are crucial in informing us if we can speed up the contribution of Coal/Nat. Gas and alternative/renewable sources to offset what will in my opinion be a precipitous drop in contributions of Oil to our energy supply .
PS. I also do not consider myself an acolyte of Etp but rather a curious observer of it.

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')conomic rules have been demonstrated to work for thousands of years

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')S. I also do not consider myself an acolyte of Etp but rather a curious observer of it.

[StarvingLion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')hanks for the reply T. So, I do think you have faith that EV's will address the critical transportation sector in being a somewhat adequate replacement for Oil and the internal combustion engine. So, while all you say makes sense, all of us here have been debating the energy issues for some time. We have difference of opinion of how effective other energy sources can be in maintaing the integrity of our world civilization. So, I do believe the next few years are crucial in informing us if we can speed up the contribution of Coal/Nat. Gas and alternative/renewable sources to offset what will in my opinion be a precipitous drop in contributions of Oil to our energy supply .
PS. I also do not consider myself an acolyte of Etp but rather a curious observer of it.

[StarvingLion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')hanks for the reply T. So, I do think you have faith that EV's will address the critical transportation sector in being a somewhat adequate replacement for Oil and the internal combustion engine. So, while all you say makes sense, all of us here have been debating the energy issues for some time. We have difference of opinion of how effective other energy sources can be in maintaing the integrity of our world civilization. So, I do believe the next few years are crucial in informing us if we can speed up the contribution of Coal/Nat. Gas and alternative/renewable sources to offset what will in my opinion be a precipitous drop in contributions of Oil to our energy supply .
PS. I also do not consider myself an acolyte of Etp but rather a curious observer of it.

[Baduila]

ETP is not only an equation. It is a consequence of a simple physics fact: If two things are in thermal equilibrium, none of the thermal energy of one part can be used to heat up the other part. To heat up one part, external energy is necessary.
Earth interior interior and earth surface are in equilibrium, masked by a thermal gradient of 35 K/km. To heat up the earth surface, it is not possible to use the heat of the oil. All energy must come from external sources. The energy necessary is calculated by ETP.

Thermodynamics, developed by Rudolf Clausius (+1988), results in ETP as a logical consequence.

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')We don't know and never will know exactly how much energy is wasted getting energy.

[onlooker]

How do you know that Asg. You have never demonstrated that you are familiar with the technical/mathematical aspects ts of the Etp equations

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'Y')ou have never demonstrated that you are familiar with the technical/mathematical aspects ts of the Etp equations

[onlooker]

You are hereby reprimanded for mocking the Etp. haha

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'Y')ou are hereby reprimanded for mocking the Etp. haha

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')conomic rules have been demonstrated to work for thousands of years

[vtsnowedin]

I expect that the first economist was a Neanderthal grandmother that knew how long a winter was and calculated the size of the wood pile she needed to get the youngsters to gather before the first snows and the pile of nuts and edible roots needed in case the hunters came up short on the meat pole.
"Bring me an armload of wood, each of you children, and I'll tell you the story about the great mystery."

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')anada with all due respect and I do subscribe to what you just said. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. However, my inquiry is simply this. Does not Energy provide a different context in which Economics will act and react.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')he fundamental different between ETP and Economics (I wrote trying to get the thread back on topic) is Economic rules have been demonstrated to work for thousands of years and ETP has only presented a loose correlation for the last handful of years.

If you want to overturn thousands of years of precedent you need something a lot better than a loose correlation between theory and the real world effects. Absolutely nothing about the last decade of oil prices is beyond the economic model of supply demand dynamics. If your intention is to show your new model is more descriptive at demonstrating cause and effect than the supply/demand model then you must demonstrate it to a much greater degree than the loose correlation which has taken place over the last three years.

Fortune favors the doubters because the ETP model has fixed dates and fixed prices for those dates which are now demonstrably false in matching reality. At the same time the supply/demand economic model is demonstrating its accuracy once again, as supplies tighten prices rise. This model was also demonstrated in late 2014 in the opposite direction, when supplies rise prices fall.