[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')he point of taxes is to steal from everybody (who has money above self-sufficiency and family) and give stuff to other people. So I take your money and I spend it on roads, or poor black children.

And if the poor children (of any color or political persuasion) are treated fairly then they don't grow up angry, depressed and rebellious. They grow up to be productive members of the society. And they don't join radicals cliques like (todays) republican party.

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')The founders would disagree.

[Newfie]

Let’s dial back the political jabs and wander back towards the topic.

[asg70]

The problem with ideology today is polarization.

The truth is always to be found in the middle.

As far as peak-oil goes, Ibon would be quick to tell us that humans evolved to cope with scarcity. Remove the threat of scarcity and we tend to become lazy and shiftless.

Are there people who are a net drag on the welfare state who might have put in more effort if not for the buffer of the giveaways? Damn straight. What do you think immigrants are coming here for with their pregnant bellies? To plant the flag wth their anchor-babies and start sucking on the government teat.

That's not to say that I'm against entitlements, but when you give people something without earning it...it teaches them that you don't have to put effort into life. Some degree of existential dread is a good thing.

Entitlements should be seen more as limited loans for the purpose of self-improvement. It should be conditional. No improvement? No more handouts. The left offers only carrots and no sticks. Human nature just doesn't work that way.

I have my doubt that if we have a robocalypse and some universal human wage is instituted that we'll see some sort of Star Trek utopia where money no longer matters. Instead we'll probably become more and more like idiocracy.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'D')on't care what the rich are up to, nor what the poor are up to. As long as I'm comfortable I find I have enough to worry about without stressing over who is richer or poorer than me. I will leave such worry to you social justice warriors.

[Cog]

I vote for every small government politician I can. That generally means I will be voting for a Republican. I'm definitely not down with government taking my money away to give to the less deserving. But to have angst and fret about how much or less the guy down the street makes is not something I waste time with.

These threads always devolve down into the evil rich need to be punished for their crimes in some way. Its a common feeling here on peak oil forum and its somewhat humorous to watch.

[Ibon]

My last post on this thread was comparing China to North America and I made the following comment

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')orth America on the other hand feels far more fragmented and divided. Split. There is no real sense of civic unity. Lot's of anger and pessimism and lack of confidence in institutions, in politicians, in the economy. I sense sometimes that in the USA at the moment we are also all feeding off of each others fragmented pessimism of institutions being irreparably broken.

[Cog]

Even the thread title Ibon used "Filthy Rich" is an attempt to denigrate the rich while implying some sort of moral virtue to being poor. Its what the social justice warriors do with the language.

[Newfie]

It seems to me many folks here do it, LEft or Right.

I invite everyone disturbed by such language to take this opportunity to set a better example.

[ralfy]

What we are seeing is a consumer spending economy operating to keep the masses happy, owned by Wall Street bankers who get ZIRP thanks to one Reagan clone after another, and who also back a military-industrial complex that happens to operate one of the largest prison and surveillance systems in the world while keeping a petrodollar propped up, and with the same petrodollar used as part of a ponzi scheme to spread the same "American dream" worldwide (i.e., moving from farm and factory to office and financial speculation).

And while most keep telling themselves that this arrangement will go on in the long term, the same banks, insurers, and even military organizations are releasing one report after another telling their clients and personnel to prepare for you-know-what.

[Ibon]

Of course not all rich are filthy, I am an excellent example

I certainly did not mean to suggest that all rich are filthy, but few of us here would deny that the vast majority of those who accumulate wealth, especially vast amounts of wealth, got their due to their ambition of status, power, greed. Believe me, and I have witnessed this in myself and in many others, once you start to accumulate a certain wealth and power it tends to go to your head.

I made a conscious choice to disengage, become a recluse of sorts, take another road. If you weren't born into it once you accumulate the first couple of million it becomes very hard to resist the power games and sense of superiority that goes along with this. It takes an evolved soul to willfully disengage from the alluring seduction that wealth brings and the heady power trip that follows.

This is not something American or even unique to the Industrial Revolution, let's recall a wise biblical saying most of you are familiar with

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')esus recorded in the synoptic gospels: I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('asg70', '
')As far as peak-oil goes, Ibon would be quick to tell us that humans evolved to cope with scarcity. Remove the threat of scarcity and we tend to become lazy and shiftless.

[Newfie]

Branson gets a settlement for £328k from UK national insurance fund.

Branson worth about £3.5 billion.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.expres ... -court/amp

One could argue this was his due by the law.

Somehow I don’t think the heard will hear it that way.

[Cog]

You don't get or stay rich by letting government cheat you out of money that is due you. Branson is a big liberal but I'm glad he prevailed in this instance.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'B')ranson gets a settlement for £328k from UK national insurance fund.

Branson worth about £3.5 billion.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.expres ... -court/amp

One could argue this was his due by the law.

Somehow I don’t think the heard will hear it that way.

[mmasters]

I think it comes down to two camps. The government should take care of the people and they should steal from the rich to fulfill their purpose, the left. Then the right, that people should take care of themselves, keep a reasonable amount of their profit and government should get out of the way. I think the second path is the only one with any hope. An entitlement state based on mediocrity and people wanting to feel better when they haven't made anything of themselves is a road to disaster.

[Newfie]

“Money” is producer by magic elves.

Look, no matter how you cut it we no longer live in a “Capitalist” society. The government, and corporations, do a great deal of money redistribution. Taxes are only one of the means they use. They also “create” money. Then they “create” jobs through legislation (or lack thereof - medical debacle), and they manage entitlements.

So a few have figured how to game the “system” and concentrate some “wealth”.

I know I’m a minority of one in this regard but I think we give these conventional “wealth” measurements far too much credit.

My kids are just as valuable to me as any billionaire kids are to them.
How old was Steve Jobs when he died? What good did his money do against pancreatic cancer?
I don’t think Branson or Gates are happier than I, and I suspect they are far more enslaved by their quest for gold. I’ll bet I have more freedom than they do. I can say “f*** all” and take off for a few months at most any given time ( when the Wife lets me. LOL).

Most of their bucks are all virtual stock crud. Think about it, suppose Gates decided to liquidate his stock tomorrow and distribute it evenly across the population. Everyone in the world would get a couple of bucks IF he could actually do that without tanking the stock.

Quit worrying about what others have. Are you happy? If not why? 50¢ says it ain’t because of your busted bank account. Figure that stuff out.

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('asg70', 'T')he rich are oftentimes very bright and they are not clueless about what's on its way. Sure, the right-wing denier bunch like the Koch brothers and the Cheetoh in Charge are, but people like Ted Turner and many others are "woke" to doom. Elon Musk is "woke" to a certain extent, but because he is attempting to "science the shit out of it", he's the target of ridicule here. But that's a bit more socially constructive than just quietly building an underground bunker.