[ralfy]

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '[')img]https://cdn.dopl3r.com/memes_files/my-boss-arrived-at-workin-a-brand-nevw-amazing-car-cd-cd-he-replied-ifyou-work-hard-put-allyour-hours-in-and-strive-for-excelence-ill-get-another-one-next-year-8yZNx.jpg[/img]

[ralfy]

[Cog]

Jealousy is such a corrosive emotion. Get back to work.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('baha', '-')snip-

Our capitalist society has created the ignorant/resentful people that we all bitch about.

China is doing many things right. Education is easily available there and they are at the front of future technology. I have worked and studied with Chinese folks and these people are smart and motivated. Their genes are the same as ours but they have better opportunities and support. The Chinese make most of the solar equipment on earth, have several companies building electric cars, and are building the next generation of nuke plants. They have a problem with population but at least they give people's brains a chance. Before they send them off to flip burgers.

To say someone won't work to improve their life unless you pay them more is pointing out our worship of money. That is the only thing we have to offer. It's sad really that everything in this country is measured with fiat money instead of intrinsic value.

All people are valuable. Until we realize that and start treating all people with respect we will continue to fall apart. And unfortunately in our society money is the only form of respect we have

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ll people are valuable. Until we realize that and start treating all people with respect we will continue to fall apart. And unfortunately in our society money is the only form of respect we have 

[Cog]

The discussion here revolves around the belief that if you work hard you deserve something. You don't deserve anything except what you can negotiate with your employer. Failing that there is another inclination of the social progressives. To use the force of government to give to those who feel they deserve something by taking from those who actually obtained it.

Hard work is valuable because it shows you have some form of work ethic. Smart work is using that work ethic to advance yourself so you are compensated for it. Its called paying your dues. I did it and so did a lot of successful people. If you are still flipping burgers after five years of doing so, you are either lazy or incompetent at it. You should be either an assistant or full time manager at that burger joint by that time. Now if you want to put in a minimal effort, punch the clock, do just enough work not to get fired, you can deal with being stuck where you are.

[onlooker]

Cog, nobody here is denigrating the value of hard work. It is a virtuous ethic.
However, this conversation runs deeper than that. It is about a trajectory our species has taken in which we have commodified everthing. And where we have become overly materialistic beings. This is been greatly accentuated by having had access to such a rich source of energy in the form of fossil fuels.

And so, we embarked on creating this huge world wide civilization upon the foundations of what one can loosely term Capitalism. By this I mean, the establishmentof private property, a currency, a profit incentive and a host of bylaws that stipulate the contractual basis of commerce and trade. And also the issuance of Debt via fiat money. All this has served to enrich the already wealthy as they could leverage their wealth into ever more wealth. So, now we have a extremely unjust and unequal world. Where 1 billion or so cannot access sufficient food in a world with sufficient food for everyone and to boot with lots of waste in countries like the US, then something is deeply wrong with this economic sytem. It is rather simple. We are inflexible with regards to the implementation and supremacy of this sytem. So, if you do not have money, you do NOT get access to food, medical service, housing, water etc. This is ubiquitous with minor exceptions. So, I stand by my harsh critique of Capitalism even as I recognize it is a system rather commensurate with our stage in evolution

[Cog]

There are those progressive words again just and equal. They have no real meaning unless you intend to take from those that have and give to those who do not. That is your real intention here after all. Take a look at Africa. Plenty of resources but a disaster because they do not employ capitalism as we would understand the word. They have no law except that of the tribal dictator of the moment dictates. As a consequence they suffer. No rule of law and no pretense to have any. But none of that makes it my responsibility, as an American, to fix their problem.

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')here are those progressive words again just and equal. They have no real meaning unless you intend to take from those that have and give to those who do not. That is your real intention here after all. Take a look at Africa. Plenty of resources but a disaster because they do not employ capitalism as we would understand the word. They have no law except that of the tribal dictator of the moment dictates. As a consequence they suffer. No rule of law and no pretense to have any. But none of that makes it my responsibility, as an American, to fix their problem.

[onlooker]

Nice Ghung. Sharing and caring not competing and stealing haha

[Cog]

You progressives think the size of the pie is limited and those who are successful are somehow eating your pie. You could not be more wrong. Your slice of the pie is determined by how big of a piece you want to create and what you are willing to do to get it.

But please continue your moaning about how life has screwed you over. I find it amusing to say the least.

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')ou progressives think the size of the pie is limited and those who are successful are somehow eating your pie. You could not be more wrong. Your slice of the pie is determined by how big of a piece you want to create and what you are willing to do to get it.

But please continue your moaning about how life has screwed you over. I find it amusing to say the least.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')ou progressives think the size of the pie is limited and those who are successful are somehow eating your pie. You could not be more wrong. Your slice of the pie is determined by how big of a piece you want to create and what you are willing to do to get it.

But please continue your moaning about how life has screwed you over. I find it amusing to say the least.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')ou progressives think the size of the pie is limited and those who are successful are somehow eating your pie. You could not be more wrong. Your slice of the pie is determined by how big of a piece you want to create and what you are willing to do to get it.

But please continue your moaning about how life has screwed you over. I find it amusing to say the least.

[KaiserJeep]

There is nothing inherently fair about any other economic system you care to name, either. There simply are no other systems anywhere in the World that work at more than a basic level. Russia is now an Oligarchy, and China a curious Authoritarian Capitalism. Both are degraded forms of Capitalism. Meanwhile, Marxism has failed most recently in Venezuela and Cuba, where we have glimpsed poverty and misery in both places.

If you have examples of modern countries that offer improved economic systems, then please name them. Because so far, it seems like what you are complaining about is the distribution of wealth under a system where some people have more because they have worked harder.

Nobody ever said Capitalism was perfect, it's only far better than anything else ever tried. You are an American and you are complaining about a country that has enabled more wealth in our Middle Class than in any other country. Or perhaps you are sniveling because you see others that have more than you do, and resent it. The desire to have more should instead incent you to work harder, earn more, get promoted, and get a better paying job.

[onlooker]

Curious, that you all are describing Capitalism and extolling its virtues which precisely in fact are its vices. No doubt, it has been exceedingly good at being ruthless and exploitative. For that is its nature as a system adhered to by humans. It seeks to out compete to conquer because it is about maximining profit as the ultimate goal. And so it is true via Survival of the fittest Capitalism has effectively out competed and destroyed other cultures who stood in the way of this Maximing of profits. The post above in this thread show how many bellicose conflicts can be traced to the Imperial mandates of the English Empire and the US Empire. Imperial is to say growth and maximing of profit. So, your defense of Capitalism is the other side of the coin of its pernicious aspects. We happen to be on the fortunate side. I am NOT complaining as I keenly recognize my good fortune. But, this should not mean I have to be a staunch advocate of the exploitation and abuse and unfair and unjust circumstances Capitalism has left in its wake throughout the planet. In fact, it is us fortunate ones who most need to find our inner compassion to empathize with all those around the planet who have been the victims of this greedy Ethos and not its beneficiaries.

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '
')Nobody ever said Capitalism was perfect, it's only far better than anything else ever tried.....

[KaiserJeep]

You would be another one, wasting time uselessly complaining about a place that has a long and increasing line of people waiting to move here. If anything you said bore the remotest resemblance to truth, Americans would be leaving here and going there.

Give it up, you are deluded as well.

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'Y')ou would be another one, wasting time uselessly complaining about a place that has a long and increasing line of people waiting to move here. If anything you said bore the remotest resemblance to truth, Americans would be leaving here and going there.

Give it up, you are deluded as well.