[Rod_Cloutier]

Hi All,

John Michael Greer posted this excellent review of a new and controversial book, 'The Climate Change Challenge and the Failure of Democracy'.

The Author of the book, Dr. David Shearman, has many impressive credentials and is arguing for a return to authoritarianism and facism as the way to solve climate change.

As John Michael Greer described the book:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')“authoritarianism is the natural state of humanity” (p. xvi) and that people who agree with their views ought to form “an elite warrior leadership” to “battle for the future of the earth” (ibid). They propose the manufacture of a new eco-religion out of the green movement and New Age movement in order to “provide social glue for the masses” (p. 127), and spend a chapter discussing the training of “natural elites” to provide his imagined regime with “ecowarriors to do battle against the enemies of life” (p. 134). It’s all laid out in quite some detail; very nearly the only thing Shearman and Smith fail to mention is what symbol will go on their warrior elite’s armbands.

[Subjectivist]

Did you read the book yourself? If so, was it worth the investment of time and money?

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', 'D')id you read the book yourself? If so, was it worth the investment of time and money?

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')One thing about China's system -- if they REALLY want to get something important done, they just decree it and it begins to happen. This may or may not be a good thing if used a lot, but they at least can force major changes re AGW in China -- if the leaders really want it.

[Subjectivist]

Yikes! I looked it up and even the Kindle version is 22 bucks! This is not an author that wants to convince Joe6P, because average folks will never buy such an expensive book.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')One thing about China's system -- if they REALLY want to get something important done, they just decree it and it begins to happen. This may or may not be a good thing if used a lot, but they at least can force major changes re AGW in China -- if the leaders really want it.

[onlooker]

It makes me think of a quote attributed to one of US founding fathers to the effect that those who would give up liberty for the sake of security deserve neither

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I')t makes me think of a quote attributed to one of US founding fathers to the effect that those who would give up liberty for the sake of security deserve neither

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')China is not a good argument for the ability of authoritarian governments to act on climate change.

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I')t makes me think of a quote attributed to one of US founding fathers to the effect that those who would give up liberty for the sake of security deserve neither

[onlooker]

Asg, no sense surviving if the world we live in is not worth living in

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('asg70', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')China is not a good argument for the ability of authoritarian governments to act on climate change.

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Don't be silly.

[Cog]

China signed the Paris accords because it didn't affect them. Its not a huge sacrifice if they can continue to emit CO2 at will.

[onlooker]

How anybody can still put any value unto the sham that is the Paris climate accord is beyond me.

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'H')ow anybody can still put any value unto the sham that is the Paris climate accord is beyond me.

[onlooker]

Funny, but I see it from a totally different vantage point. This so called Treaty is going to do pretty much NOTHING. Yet, it has been publicized as a great step forward and so it lulls the world's citizens into believing something of substance is being done when in reality it is NOT. So rather than being something productive it is just delaying longer any remediation of our contribution to GW. But then I ascribe to Rockman's thesis that most of the people who have any economic standing in this planet in reality do not really want the changes that cutting emission would entail.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('asg70', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'H')ow anybody can still put any value unto the sham that is the Paris climate accord is beyond me.

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')An agreement that has no tangible impact isn't worth the electrons to store the text, yet three years after it was known the treaty would have zero impact on emissions some folks keep insisting it was a valuable exercise.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('asg70', '
')There's nothing in the agreement that says it will be the only agreement ever needed. It's a baby-step.

I just see this embracing of nihilism here and that's far worse than signing a flawed treaty.