THE Poverty Thread (merged)

by **Jack** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 09:17:05

Now RedJake; let's not engage in any Belgian bashing. They make great chocolates, and that's enough.

by **julianj** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 09:32:18

SpecOp, I'll try and explain it in simple terms for you.

A big man in an Armani Suit comes round, kicks your door down, grabs all the valubles in your house, and drops some small change on the floor.

A week later he comes back and tells you that the "Vig" (interest) on your loan is 100 dollars and if you don't pay up you're in for it.

That's the business practices of Capitalist countries in relation to poorer countries.

Scarcely "normal business practices". It's not normally considered wrong not to pay loan sharks.

by **Jake_old** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 09:50:17

I think the bbc report should have said

G8 leaders full of crap, realised after promising the earth that their people would have to alter lifestyles to end poverty, then they would have lost power due to lack of public support.

This way public support all round, anyone critical is suspected terrorist.

by **venky** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 09:50:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'G')ood!
If someone loans you money you pay them back. I really dont understand whats so hard about this very simple concept to understand.
Do you buy a house, then quit making payments? Do you get to drive a car off the lot without paying for it? Why are poor peoples and countries assumed to be exempt from this well established and understood business practices??

by **Specop_007** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 10:10:03

Name one loan, available to ANYONE (Country or otherwise) that doesnt have interest.
As for the fact it was a dictator that took the loan, well, shit happens. Its as simple as that. That dictator represented the country, by peoples choice or not.
Additionally, these loans arent given so the dictator can just pocket the cash. Theres usually strict guidelines one must adhere to with the loan.

Its the same thing as the credit card argument. Everyone bemoans the high interest rates and unsavory practices, but at the end of the day YOUR the one that signed the dotted line. Same with these countries. They didnt HAVE to take the loan, it wasnt forced on them at gunpoint (And I wont believe any stories otherwise without some hard proof from multiple valid sources...None of this treehuggers.com propoganda now).
So, way I look at it is they should rightfully pay it back.

I dont own a credit card. Know why? I dont like the terms. Would my life be easier if I had one? Damned right it would (Least at the beginning). Same with other people, same with foriegners and same with countries. If ya dont like it dont sign the frickin dotted line!

by **Permanently_Baffled** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 10:19:46

I wonder if Specop will be so hardline and unsympathetic when the world calls in the US debt? :lol:

When they do , bye bye America... :twisted:

8 Trillion is a lot of money !

by **Specop_007** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 10:34:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Permanently_Baffled', 'I') wonder if Specop will be so hardline and unsympathetic when the world calls in the US debt? :lol:

When they do , bye bye America... :twisted:

8 Trillion is a lot of money !

by **Njegosh** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 12:04:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Permanently_Baffled', 'I') wonder if Specop will be so hardline and unsympathetic when the world calls in the US debt? :lol:

When they do , bye bye America... :twisted:

8 Trillion is a lot of money !

by **Specop_007** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 12:27:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Njegosh', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Permanently_Baffled', 'I') wonder if Specop will be so hardline and unsympathetic when the world calls in the US debt? :lol:

When they do , bye bye America... :twisted:

8 Trillion is a lot of money !

by **Jake_old** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 16:01:03

Don't you get very angry Specop, that your fellow Americans have got your country into so much debt, which will affect you also i asume.

Other than a Mortgage I have little debt and almost everyone i know lives on debt, and I get angry with them 'cause it will affect me.

I guess Africans may feel the same right now.

by **Specop_007** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 20:50:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedJake', 'D')on't you get very angry Specop, that your fellow Americans have got your country into so much debt, which will affect you also i asume.

Other than a Mortgage I have little debt and almost everyone i know lives on debt, and I get angry with them 'cause it will affect me.

I guess Africans may feel the same right now.

by **Chuckmak** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 21:19:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'G')ood!
If someone loans you money you pay them back. I really dont understand whats so hard about this very simple concept to understand.
Do you buy a house, then quit making payments? Do you get to drive a car off the lot without paying for it? Why are poor peoples and countries assumed to be exempt from this well established and understood business practices??

by **uNkNowN ElEmEnt** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 21:25:21

The problem with these "loans" is the conditions that come with them. A country knows for instance that they can get a loan from the world bank if they also agree to (for instance) privatize certain government utilities (water, oil what ever).

they also have to agree to purchase say X tons of food from western countries. then for example, once its been signed on the dotted line the government goes around and has troops stomp out home gardens to ensure that the people pay a certain (high) price for the produce the government agreed to buy.

So the people then have to pay high prices for food they could get cheaply from their garden. the people have no choice, the only way their government could get the money was to agree to dangerous loan terms and conditions (meant to let the western interests get a foot hold into a country).

then although they have money to give the people some relief, the people are stuck paying for their own water (in Argentina I think it was the recent revolution had a lot to do with water privatization). its as crooked as it gets.

by **CrudeAwakening** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 21:45:16

And they have to repay their loans with foreign currency which they can only obtain by directing their industries towards exporting and away from domestic production.

And how is interest on a loan justified when the loaned money is created from nothing when e.g the World Bank borrows from commercial banks

by **lotrfan55345** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 22:42:22

I thought the main point of the G8 talks is to drop farm subsidies so the African economy has a chance to get itself in the world market, not all about inceasing aid or cancelling debt?

by **Specop_007** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 22:45:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'G')ood!
If someone loans you money you pay them back. I really dont understand whats so hard about this very simple concept to understand.
Do you buy a house, then quit making payments? Do you get to drive a car off the lot without paying for it? Why are poor peoples and countries assumed to be exempt from this well established and understood business practices??

by **Jack** » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 23:20:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedJake', 'D')on't you get very angry Specop, that your fellow Americans have got your country into so much debt, which will affect you also i asume.

by **Bedevere** » Wed 20 Jul 2005, 00:09:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'N')ame one loan, available to ANYONE (Country or otherwise) that doesnt have interest.

by **entropyfails** » Wed 20 Jul 2005, 03:00:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')Slaves?
I havent seen any for sale. When was the last shipment??

Nothing like bringing up OLD SHIT to make an argument eh?

by **Jake_old** » Wed 20 Jul 2005, 05:27:51

I understand your POV Specop, I just feel differently about the inequality of it.

I'm less forgiving of my fellow Brits who live 100% maxed out on credit and pour scorn on me for working for what I have first, for not wanting the latest gadget, for not renewing my car every year etc..

They are Morons, I am thinking but am labeled the nutcase. Not only this but I don't want to see loads of my fellow Brits enslaved by the debt they have if the worst should happen. It will also make recession worse than it would have otherwise been, and will take longer to recover (if that is possible).

I assume Jack, that you have money wisely invested, and good for you, I don't have money to invest but I am wealthier than the majority here in UK IMO.

Even those that earn 3 - 4 times more than me STILL feel the need to buy stuff based on future earnings, these people could quite quickly be set up for life but they will be with the rest of the rabble if SHTF.

Crazy. :roll:

THE Poverty Thread (merged)

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