[Tanada]

Yesterday's conversation about changing the employment system to have jobs for everyone in a highly automated world reminded me of this thread. It is a good review of the topic to read it top to bottom.

[Cog]

Some jobs require that you work 60-70 hours a week. Been there and done it.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'Y')esterday's conversation about changing the employment system to have jobs for everyone in a highly automated world reminded me of this thread. It is a good review of the topic to read it top to bottom.

[Ibon]

I was thinking about this. I mentioned in previous posts all the years I have spent in developing countries. How you see the under employed playing checkers or dominoes in open public spaces waiting for a temporary job. I was also thinking about the 10 years I lived Europe with those 6 weeks holiday... I was travelling on business so much for several years and deferring my holidays that I ended up once accumulating 14 weeks of holidays. My Swiss employer forced me to take them at one point. While travelling on business if I stayed the weekend those two days were added to my holidays. That is how I accumulated 14 weeks.

Here at Totumas we get mostly European guests who are on these 4-5 week holidays and they usually enjoy a 3-5 day visit. We also get Americans but they cram in their holidays to Panama on a 9 day trip, adding the two weekends to their single week break. They usually stay at most 2-3 days.

What is my point here? The more time you have off the more likely you are to enjoy leisure time. To be less harnessed to work. Those underemployed playing checkers in developing countries or those germans with 6 week holidays renting a Cabin here at Totumas.

For Americans with only 2 weeks many of them use that free time to fix their homes. They stay harnessed and tethered to a constant work load. What I was thinking about this is that this actually encourages consumption because there is no significant break during the routine of work to actually just hang playing checkers with friends or having real down time. This keeps a culture conditioned to work and consume.

When you open up significant free time this encourages pursuits that are not only about buying stuff and consumption but also encourages more time with friends, family, going for walks in the woods or what ever your hobbies are.

My conclusion here is that Americans, kept harnessed with no time off, in debt, actually forces them to high consumption because of the lack of serious down time.

The more you open up free time the more this decreases consumption. This hypothesis is based on the fact that consumption is often a compensation for something lacking and my hypothesis here is that what is lacking for many Americans is down time, friendship, playing checkers.

Does this make sense?

Checkers anyone?

[Cog]

What makes sense to me is Americans are the most productive workers in the world. Go be lazy somewhere else.

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'W')hat makes sense to me is Americans are the most productive workers in the world. Go be lazy somewhere else.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'W')hat makes sense to me is Americans are the most productive workers in the world. Go be lazy somewhere else.

[GHung]

"I would have thought so called doomers and preppers would have figured this out by now."

I figured a lot of things out years ago, including you, Cog.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'W')hat makes sense to me is Americans are the most productive workers in the world. Go be lazy somewhere else.

[Cog]

Its called choices outcast_searcher not something I wish the government to mandate. If I want to sacrifice home life or any life at all, then it should be my choice to make. Perhaps I have a goal to retire early or make a purchase that requires me to work ungodly hours to achieve it. Then that should be my choice and not your choice or the he government's to make.

I've worked a lot at various companies. I took on every over-time opportunity I could. I did this because I wanted something later on. Its called delayed gratification. Something millennials and social justice warriors would never understand.

Go be poor or lazy if you wish. No one stops you and in fact we subsidize you to do so. But for me, I'll do what is necessary to take care of my family and won't ask you to do that job for me. If you don't like the way your company treats you then QUIT. That is your choice. Go find greener pastures if they exist.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'S')ome jobs require that you work 60-70 hours a week. Been there and done it.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I')ts called choices outcast_searcher not something I wish the government to mandate. If I want to sacrifice home life or any life at all, then it should be my choice to make. Perhaps I have a goal to retire early or make a purchase that requires me to work ungodly hours to achieve it. Then that should be my choice and not your choice or the he government's to make.

I've worked a lot at various companies. I took on every over-time opportunity I could. I did this because I wanted something later on. Its called delayed gratification. Something millennials and social justice warriors would never understand.

Go be poor or lazy if you wish. No one stops you and in fact we subsidize you to do so. But for me, I'll do what is necessary to take care of my family and won't ask you to do that job for me. If you don't like the way your company treats you then QUIT. That is your choice. Go find greener pastures if they exist.

[Cog]

NO Outcast Searcher, the entire premise of this thread is for the government to mandate a 35 hour work week so someone else can have a job Screw that noise. The best decider of how many hours you work is yourself and your employer. Don't like the mandatory hours, then QUIT. Don't like how many hours of vacation you get, then QUIT. Whatever you negotiate, between vacation hours, expected work hours, benefits should be between you and your employer. The government has no role in that.

t read your previous post. You want socialized health care and well as a universal basic income. You are no capitalist, so don't even try the pretense of understanding a capitalist system. I know everything I need to know why right now about your work ethic. Move to Sweden and leave the rest of us capitalists alone to work our hours.

[Newfie]

About 10 years before I retired I started working less than 40 hours per week. First I moved to an official 36 hour week, while still working 40. That allowed me to take a couple of more vacation weeks per year. Then I moved to a new job as a part timer. Luckily I was able to retain full time benefits. I was mandated to work a minimum of 17.5 hours per week. At first I worked 4 days a week but later we coordinated our time to work 3 days a week.

I find reducing my work schedule was a wonderful idea. I traded more money for more life. Hours and days I’ll never get back.

I’ve seen a bunch of guys work well past retirement age. Invariably they have a pretty lousy home life they are escaping. Very sad really.

The 35 hour work week makes a lot of sense. It’s a very old idea well describe by Bertrand Russel as far back as 1935.


Suppose you followed the high productivity logic out to its logical conclusion. If you just simply consider people as production units and all you value is productivity then you must view most of our population as simply excess and broken productivity units. Like a Blackberry, something that should be disposed of. Since we now have a preponderance of high tech jobs the logical thing to do would be to eliminate anyone who can’t get a job. But in reality you could just be rid of most men as they are not nececcary for reproduction and most jobs can be done by women. And we can be rid of all retirees, their productive life is done so just off them.

[Cog]

No matter how you slice it, there are winners and losers in society and the work place. Its always been that way. You can either bust your ass and rise to top of your chosen field or coast. I don't really care what approach you take. But the government has zero role in deciding how many hours I can work or not work.

Go be poor somewhere else. Life not being kind to you? Cry me a river, but cry loud, because I'll be too busy to hear it.

[marmico]

How does this 35 hour workweek work when the private hourly workweek is 34.4 hours?

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marmico', 'H')ow does this 35 hour workweek work when the private hourly workweek is 34.4 hours?

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', ' ')The logical thing to do would be to eliminate anyone who can’t get a job. But the really you could just be rid of most men as they are not nececcary for reproduction and most jobs can be done by women. And we can be rid of all retirees, their productive life is done so just off them.

[Newfie]

That’s a valid point. Yet Cog frequently attacks posters for joint there is excess population and that we “doomers” desire to off the excess population.

So it would seem he has a logical break.

Either that just a persistent desire to be a thorn in the side of cogent discussion.

Perhaps these matters bother him and his conscience.

Cog, to put it to you directly, to ask of you the question you have asked of others, are you going to line up for the recycling bin now that your “best if used by” date is past?

[Cog]

Why should I Newfie? I have spent a life time working so I would not have to burden society with taking care of me. Meanwhile, there are the shiftless and lazy, my same age, who have never done a day's labor in their life. You want to put someone in the recycle bin, try starting there first.