[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
The US dollar is only worth a tiny fraction of what it was in 1900, for example.
.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
The US dollar is only worth a tiny fraction of what it was in 1900, for example.
.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '
')
Median income is pretty misleading. The average income of the bottom 90% is around $30k and has been falling in real adjusted dollars.

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '
')
Median income is pretty misleading. The average income of the bottom 90% is around $30k and has been falling in real adjusted dollars.

[creedoninmo]

We are placing sanctions on Venezuela, Russia and Iran and relations with Turkey are tense. The rest of the world needs to come up with a currency to replace the petrodollar. The question is can they.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
The US dollar is only worth a tiny fraction of what it was in 1900, for example.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '
')It's clear that each unit of new debt we add is having a declining return in terms of real growth. I find arguments that it doesn't matter, or that there can't be an abrupt end to this process, to be denialism, likely born of cognitive dissonance.

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '
')It's clear that each unit of new debt we add is having a declining return in terms of real growth. I find arguments that it doesn't matter, or that there can't be an abrupt end to this process, to be denialism, likely born of cognitive dissonance.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
If I'm missing something super obvious, please clue me in.

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'I')t is clear to me that even though they moved the decimal point over a couple of notches so that a laborer who used to make ten dollars a week now makes a thousand that on average people have more money and can afford many more things then their grandparents could in 1900.

[marmico]

Everything From This 1991 Radio Shack Ad You Can Now Do With Your Phone

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-ci ... 12973.html

[marmico]

shssh, don't tell ghung.

On a inflation adjusted per capita basis, US household debt is relatively flat since 2004.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc.html

Ooops, don't forget near record low financial obligations ratios.

[Newfie]

"You misunderstand me. Debt is a symptom of a much broader systemic issue, as are things like Donald Trump. 21st century debt is merely an attempt to cheat limits to growth. Debt is what lets us keep pretending."

GHung,
Not sure we agree on the "broader sstemic issues", he'll, not sure I understand them myself. Otherwise I think you are spot on.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
If I'm missing something super obvious, please clue me in.

[Newfie]

Interesting discussion above.

On the one hand I look at the value of money as a measure of TRUST. If you trust in the fair exchange, that both parties uphold their agreements, then it works.

But this gets very confused when we mix in stock valuation. Just because someone pays $100 for a share of stock today does not mean that my 100 shares of stock is truly worth $10,000 dollars. That is a hypothetical. Nor is it a statement of value for tomorrow when I may only get $10 for a share.

In this way, because we base wealth in stock valuations, we tend to think of the top 1% as far wealthier than they truly are. If Bill Gates tried to sell all his stock tomorrow the valuation would drop and he would get pennies on a dollar.

Worse yet would be if all our pension funds tried to liquidate.

Trust is a human experience and such is a volition element. My personal belief is that ancrisi of trust could cause a global financial system collapse, and it could happen very suddenly. Not saying it will let alone when or why. Just saying that the potential is there.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')So clearly, salaries buy more stuff, but as you say, not stuff of value. Or as I say, not happiness.

[Revi]

They are talking about a bit of inflation coming in the new year. I guess it's inevitable with the situation we find ourselves in. Hard to tell. They are trying to get inflation to happen, but we'll see if they succeed and if they can control it next year when the Fed starts bumping interest rates.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/inflatio ... 41386.html

[onlooker]

Newf, I think by systemic issues is talking about Limits to Growth issues especially how our huge world population and modern world is unsustainable
Revi, the scary thing is if/when interest rates go up, this may unwind much debt and lead to a true asset price discovery causing cascading defaults as balance sheets are exposed and consequently lending will dry up.

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e are placing sanctions on Venezuela, Russia and Iran and relations with Turkey are tense. The rest of the world needs to come up with a currency to replace the petrodollar. The question is can they.

[onlooker]

Short, couldn't they do a reset and new valuation in another currency or medium ie. bitcoin, crypto etc. ? What really stand out also if the US economy goes down is all the trade and debt holdings that would cease and default. Not to mention all the knowhow and expertise of US corporations. I too see it as highly unlikely that the rest of the countries in any scenario would seek the demise of the US economy. Yes, they are seeking a more fair distribution and power scheme but not the destruction of the US economy. A currency collapse of the US dollar would be in effect a collapse of the US economy.