Discussing oil depletion with a family member, and the fact that it could lead to a serious recession if not depression...I was informed that there won't be another depression because "they won't let it happen." In discussing oil depletion with a friend I was instructed that "they will come up with something." This is not the first time I've heard this type of answer...so I'm dying to know who is they?
I'm assuming "they" is an all-powerful benevolent group of people (or aliens?) that is constantly and vigilantly looking out for the safety and well-being of mankind...such that no bad thing could ever happen?
Does anyone know who they is?
Maybe "they" is a safety shut-off valve in the brain that kicks in whenever discomforting thoughts enter the cerebral cortex? Thereby not causing the brain to overheat.
Maybe "they" is the industrial-technological megamachine that has provided us so many lavish gifts like televisions, SUVs, ipods, jet skis and trans-oceanic jet powered vacations to distant mega-resorts and super hotels? By questioning "they" you are questioning the techology god who has provided you with so much bounty and luxury. Blasphemy?
I've come to the conclusion that a large percentage of the population willl simply not be moved by a Colin Campbell or a Richard Heinberg or willyoujoinus.com because they don't have anything to worry about.
"they" will save them!
PeakOil is You
who is "they"?
who is "they"?
by seldom_seen » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 01:20:58
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by basketballjones » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 02:07:54
Most of the people who ascribe to the thought of 'they will come up with a solution' really don't understand the predicament that we (we being society) are in and therefore misunderestimate the lack of alternatives we have. The "they" in this statement i think really refers to the politicians, leaders and the scientists around the world. When people are in trouble they inevitably turn to their leaders for help.
In reality, history has other plans for us and it won't be sentimental about it.
For example my girlfriend believes in creationism because she thinks that the idea that we evolved from monkeys is just not a nice idea. Translated into peak oil scenario people wish for the 'they' to appear from over the horizon in the last minutes. It won't be a hollywood movie in that the politicians and scientists get together and frantically solve the problem. But 'they'd' like to believe it. People identify with the stories they hear or see in the various forms of media and with the last minute save by the hero.
In reality, history has other plans for us and it won't be sentimental about it.
For example my girlfriend believes in creationism because she thinks that the idea that we evolved from monkeys is just not a nice idea. Translated into peak oil scenario people wish for the 'they' to appear from over the horizon in the last minutes. It won't be a hollywood movie in that the politicians and scientists get together and frantically solve the problem. But 'they'd' like to believe it. People identify with the stories they hear or see in the various forms of media and with the last minute save by the hero.
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by EnergySpin » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 02:17:34
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n reality, history has other plans for us and it won't be sentimental about it.
For example my girlfriend believes in creationism because she thinks that the idea that we evolved from monkeys is just not a nice idea. Translated into peak oil scenario people wish for the 'they' to appear from over the horizon in the last minutes. It won't be a hollywood movie in that the politicians and scientists get together and frantically solve the problem. But 'they'd' like to believe it. People identify with the stories they hear or see in the various forms of media and with the last minute save by the hero.
For example my girlfriend believes in creationism because she thinks that the idea that we evolved from monkeys is just not a nice idea. Translated into peak oil scenario people wish for the 'they' to appear from over the horizon in the last minutes. It won't be a hollywood movie in that the politicians and scientists get together and frantically solve the problem. But 'they'd' like to believe it. People identify with the stories they hear or see in the various forms of media and with the last minute save by the hero.
Well summarized. Saving the world is someone else's business not mine.
We did not really evolve from monkeys btw. Creationists show a picture of a babboon and a human to make people reject evolution. In reality our common ancestor was a mammal the size of a rat. Oops that's not any better isn't it?
Hollywood and the popular mythology of heros is so responsible for this f..d up attitude. If we were to view the whole situation rationally, science provides a list of alternatives and society (including the scientists) decide how to proceed.
BTW do creationists accept PO?
"Nuclear power has long been to the Left what embryonic-stem-cell research is to the Right--irredeemably wrong and a signifier of moral weakness."Esquire Magazine,12/05
The genetic code is commaless and so are my posts.
The genetic code is commaless and so are my posts.
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by basketballjones » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 03:03:24
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '
')Well summarized. Saving the world is someone else's business not mine.
We did not really evolve from monkeys btw. Creationists show a picture of a babboon and a human to make people reject evolution. In reality our common ancestor was a mammal the size of a rat. Oops that's not any better isn't it?
Hollywood and the popular mythology of heros is so responsible for this f..d up attitude. If we were to view the whole situation rationally, science provides a list of alternatives and society (including the scientists) decide how to proceed.
BTW do creationists accept PO?
')Well summarized. Saving the world is someone else's business not mine.
We did not really evolve from monkeys btw. Creationists show a picture of a babboon and a human to make people reject evolution. In reality our common ancestor was a mammal the size of a rat. Oops that's not any better isn't it?
Hollywood and the popular mythology of heros is so responsible for this f..d up attitude. If we were to view the whole situation rationally, science provides a list of alternatives and society (including the scientists) decide how to proceed.
BTW do creationists accept PO?
Correct. I should have said apes rather than monkeys but the point still remains. That because people love seeing the world through rose coloured glasses they dismiss the obvious truths.
Do creationists accept peak oil? Well, i don't think they accept it, but they sure will benefit from it. Just as Bush wasn't responsible for 9/11 but certainly he benefitted from it. I've no doubt that the symptoms of peak oil will be remolded into the religious equivalent of 'I told you so'. It may not be the wacky fire and brimstone ending that the bible predicts (nuclear war excluded) but the events as they occur will be sold as the Great Raputure irrespective that it's both the believers and non believers who are the recipent of "God's vengance". Of course, religion and geology have nothing to do with each other but then again Saddam Hussein never had anything to do with Al Qaeda.
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by gego » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 04:55:12
Not many people want to face the reality that there is nobody inside them but themselves; being alone is just too much so being part of a group that will take care of them is very appealing. Denial is always the first defense against unpleasant reality.
As for the reality, the opposite of economic expansion is economic contraction. The US economy has been, on the average, expanding as long as the US has existed as a country. There have been little bumps along the was which have been called panic, recession and if bad enough depression, but these were all relatively short and ran counter to the underlying overall economic expansion. The economic pie was getting larger simply because resources were being exploited as never before in history, and oil has been the best resource ever exploited, yielding the greatest economic expansion of them all.
We will have less energy being exploited after the peak, so the underlying rule for the economy will be contraction, not expansion. There will be fewer and fewer goodies (many of them necessary for life), instead of more and more. Instead of good times interrupted by short periods of bad times, it will be the opposite, bad times interrupted by stort periods of better times or at least stability.
To think of the future in terms of the recessions we have previously had is grossly misleading. Breakdowns are always disorderly. There will be no excess energy with which to make the transition back to older, more sustainable ways of living, and those older ways do not support anything close to the 6.5 current human population. The 30 years that it will take to reach "no economically meaningful oil production" will be over in a flash.
No wonder people like to have "they" to take care of them.
As for the reality, the opposite of economic expansion is economic contraction. The US economy has been, on the average, expanding as long as the US has existed as a country. There have been little bumps along the was which have been called panic, recession and if bad enough depression, but these were all relatively short and ran counter to the underlying overall economic expansion. The economic pie was getting larger simply because resources were being exploited as never before in history, and oil has been the best resource ever exploited, yielding the greatest economic expansion of them all.
We will have less energy being exploited after the peak, so the underlying rule for the economy will be contraction, not expansion. There will be fewer and fewer goodies (many of them necessary for life), instead of more and more. Instead of good times interrupted by short periods of bad times, it will be the opposite, bad times interrupted by stort periods of better times or at least stability.
To think of the future in terms of the recessions we have previously had is grossly misleading. Breakdowns are always disorderly. There will be no excess energy with which to make the transition back to older, more sustainable ways of living, and those older ways do not support anything close to the 6.5 current human population. The 30 years that it will take to reach "no economically meaningful oil production" will be over in a flash.
No wonder people like to have "they" to take care of them.
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by Nike62 » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 09:43:46
I've read a lot of corrrect and interesting consideration about "They", but the most important (IMVHO) is:
"They" are all the RVIP (Real Very Important People), i.e. the "Owner" (and "Manoeuvrer") of our society.
"They" are obvioulsy interested in the fate of their own life and "their" properties.
"They" don't want to loose everything.
"They" won't accept the destruction of "their" world.
"They" have all the world's political, financial and technological power in their hands.
"They" will fix all this mess when "they" judge the "right time" has arrived
("right time" meaning when it'll suit more and better their economical interests).
I suppose there is no way to dismantle this faith in "They", because it is very well based on a robust "common sense"...
"They" are all the RVIP (Real Very Important People), i.e. the "Owner" (and "Manoeuvrer") of our society.
"They" are obvioulsy interested in the fate of their own life and "their" properties.
"They" don't want to loose everything.
"They" won't accept the destruction of "their" world.
"They" have all the world's political, financial and technological power in their hands.
"They" will fix all this mess when "they" judge the "right time" has arrived
("right time" meaning when it'll suit more and better their economical interests).
I suppose there is no way to dismantle this faith in "They", because it is very well based on a robust "common sense"...
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by Doly » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 10:36:29
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nike62', '
')I suppose there is no way to dismantle this faith in "They", because it is very well based on a robust "common sense"...
')I suppose there is no way to dismantle this faith in "They", because it is very well based on a robust "common sense"...
Do you mean you agree that "they" will save us?
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Hem... simply because of our (we "no-mother-thongue", I mean) ignorance, I'm, afraid...
