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PeakOil is You

The future of the housing market.

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

The future of the housing market.

Unread postby Permanently_Baffled » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 17:34:05

I am just curious to what sort of price levels housing will fall to in the coming years. Lets assume there is the PO recession/depression route rather than mad max or nuclear war (in which case it doesn't matter 8O ).

What sort of negative equity are we looking at?

For ease of numbers let forecast the price on a £200,000 house in the South of England. Give me forecast prices for 2010 , 2015 and 2020.

Or for Americans a price forecast on a $800,000 dollar home in San diego in 2010 , 2015 and 2020. (see if we can scare Jato a little :P )

Just interested to know how shagged i am! :P

PB
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Unread postby linlithgowoil » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 17:55:09

unemployment is going to have to start climbing a lot before house prices fall significantly.

who knows when that will happen? probably soon though.

i predict the following:- another few years of house price stagnation/slight falls, followed by a massive plummet around 2010 as the economy implodes and unemployment rises above 20%.
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Unread postby bruin » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 18:02:47

I have no idea about London, but that $800,000 home in San Diego has a lot of things going for it after PO. The downside to San Diego there is not mass transit to speak of. There is bus service and a ferry service to Coronada but nothing that will get every body to work. But that's pretty much the case for the USA in general. However, the weather is so mild, that after PO, the cost of living will be much less then many other areas in the USA. Given that, the demand for housing in San Diego will have a lot of upward pressure after PO.
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Unread postby CrudeAwakening » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 18:49:42

I think a lot depends on how many new ingenious ways they find to persuade people to take on unaffordable debt. But sooner or later there will be a large scale inability to repay, and prices will come down. People tend to assume their wages will increase or at least remain constant, they could be in for a surprise..
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Unread postby MicroHydro » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 19:50:15

After the dieoff, the empty McMansions will make good stables.
"The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel
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Unread postby jato » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 22:19:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 's')ee if we can scare Jato a little


I am already scared! :? :shock:


I paid $370k for my home in 2001, now it is worth $750k.

My pay (Deputy Sheriff) in 2001 was: $62,410/y $28.24/h (85 hour paycheck x26 weeks)



Now it is: $68,361/y $30.93/h for whopping %9 increase since 2001. That is not the whole truth. Now I pay more into my retirement and medical benefits. My take home pay (after all deductions) has not increased much since 2001.

My current pay scale

If you consider the price increase for housing, gasoline, natural gas, electricity, propane (my house's fuel), food, property tax, etc. I am losing ground big time. I had to put the wife back to work :cry:


A new sheriff's cadet makes $16.66 per hour!!!! That's only $36,818 per year before deductions! Try to buy a house on that salary! A small cheap house costs $400k!
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Unread postby jmacdaddio » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 22:42:38

My parents were able to buy their dream house in an upscale NJ town 2 years ago. Most normal parents trade down when the nest empties but not my parents - they purchased a home comparable in size to a McMansion but it was built in the 1970s and the construction is much sturdier than any of the crap built recently. They rolled the proceeds of the sale of the house where I grew up into the new home, and they only have a small mortgage to pay (small being relative) considering that both are still working.

The house has already appreciated close to 35% in 2 years. If you spit 10 feet in any direction in their neighborhood you'll see a house for sale. Lots of folks are cashing in now, or trying to make a move before the party ends. Q4 2005 will be interesting.
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Unread postby pea-jay » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 23:06:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bruin', 'I') have no idea about London, but that $800,000 home in San Diego has a lot of things going for it after PO. The downside to San Diego there is not mass transit to speak of. There is bus service and a ferry service to Coronada but nothing that will get every body to work. But that's pretty much the case for the USA in general. However, the weather is so mild, that after PO, the cost of living will be much less then many other areas in the USA. Given that, the demand for housing in San Diego will have a lot of upward pressure after PO.


Not so fast. San Diego may have a mild climate (especially near the coast) but you guys are at the end of the road when it comes to resources. Most importantly: water. San Diego is a dry area. Most if not all of your water originates from Central and northern California along with the Colorado river. Pumping that water into the southland is no easy feat. It is one of the largest single uses of electricity the state grid has (at about 6% or so). Now I am not saying your water will be cut off tomorrow, but long term you have to be really sure those pumps will keep pumping. I am not convinced this can continue over the long haul. What are those millions going to do if water and electricity are not available?

But its not just that, the food situation is also not pretty. 3.5 million people in a county where most of the flat land is now taken up by urban and suburban land uses--where is the food going to be grown, even IF you could ensure a stable supply of water?? Remember, transportation will be the most impacted by Peak Oil. You have to be really sure that food trucks, trains and barges keep rolling in the future. The closest are that produces an excess of food is the central valley. Of course that area has its own challenges.

Now for all those planning on staying put. What are you going to do?? A job? For many of you that will be hard to come by. Tourism? Forgetaboutit. Also impacted, financial, technology, most service sectors in fact. Construction activity will be non existent. Can't speak for the various government jobs from the military down onto law enforcement. I just can't figure what these people be doing. Cashing out on the 800K houses. yeah right.

Aside from the central sections of San Diego and other older coastal cities, San Diego is not walkable.

Of course I am a doomer. If you are convinced that by 2015 or 2020 you will be motoring about town in your biodiesel or fuelcell car and live in a house powered by solar panels, by all means stay in San Diego. I feel better already not living there anymore.
UNplanning the future...
http://unplanning.blogspot.com
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