[SolarDave]

Garage Door Opener (receiver runs all the time)

Timers that turn appliances on or off

X10 equipment/outlets/sockets/controllers

Any pilot light (surge supressor strips)

Plumbing Pipe Heating Tapes (probably not on, but you never know)

When it gets down to the final determination of where the power is going, sometimes you have to turn off all your breakers and then turn them on one at a time (while checking your meter for usage) until you determine which circuit is sucking the power, and then trace it. That may require something as simple as a portable lamp, or as complicated as "fox and hound" cable tracers.

You _will_ ultimately figure out what is going on.

[strider3700]

I've actually already done the turn off the breakers and watch the spinning meter thing. turning off my entire house barely made it slow down. turning off the water system in the shop, namely that circulation pump, makes the meter effectively stop.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/produc ... 55&ccitem=

This should drop that part by about 1/40th I hope to get my hands on one within the next month. After that I'll start tracking down the other big drains

[Stark]

Frequently I see people in forums relating to energy conservation talk about electric appliances and light bulbs and such as if they "use up" energy, as if this energy just disappears into nothingness.

In fact, with whatever the appliance you're talking about, televisions, computers, light bulbs, etc, almost 100% of the electric energy used by the appliance is turned into heat.

I have electric baseboard heat, and this heat is on during probably 80% of the year. Even during much of the summer, it will come on at night. (I live in Seattle, which has mild summers)

The electricity used by my computer or television is converted into heat, which helps heat my home. Any heat produced by appliances doesn't need to come out of the baseboard heaters. As a result, the vast majority of the time, my appliances are not costing me anything to operate in terms of energy. It makes practically no difference whether the heat is coming out of my computer or out of the baseboard heater which is 2 feet away from the computer.

Of course, if you're using heating oil, it may be cheaper to heat your home using the oil than using electricity. And if it's warm enough already that you don't need the heat, then this energy is indeed all wasted. And if it's so hot that you're air conditioning your home, then the energy is doubly wasted, as you'll have to use up more electricity in the air conditioning system to make up for the heat produced by your appliances.

One way or another, though, something one should be aware of if one is thinking in terms of energy conservation.

[JoeGreene]

Actually, (in the winter), appliances and lights are often more efficient than baseboard. Waste occurs if heat is not evenly distributed within the living space. Baseboards kick in at full throttle, heated air rises to the ceiling. Other devices are distributive in comparison.

Your post is well taken as, if you thing about it, humans are energy ignorant. I remember a class called music appreciation, perhaps educators should consider energy appreciation.

Getting back to the baseboards, if it's already invented I've not heard of it: baseboards should heat up incrementally, predicated on the actual vs target differential. Say the outside temp is 60, the BB's might stay warm to the touch all day. This would be more efficient, confortable and eliminate annoying clicks of expanding heating elements [that go with the cycling of bb's].

[Heineken]

I agree that there is some marginal heating function provided by computers etc. However . . .

The heat produced by appliances makes makes your refrigerator and freezer and air-conditioning system less efficient.

Most of the U.S. doesn't enjoy your situation with cool summers. In a fast-warming world, cooling will be more important than heating in the future.

Bear in mind that lots of energy is wasted during the mining or pumping of the fuel that eventually creates the electricity used to run your appliances. A lot of electricity is wasted during transmission over wires, too. Every gizmo you plug in is only adding to the total problem and accelerating the day of reckoning.

[Kingcoal]

You always have to look at the source to determine how efficient an electric powered device is. Electricity is actually very similar to a tank of compressed air or hydraulic fluid. You generally need to use kinetic energy to produce the pressure. Coal is often the source of that kinetic energy. Coal power plants are rather inefficient, often below 35%. In fact, in some cases, only about 10% of that original energy expenditure is actually put to work in your house. This is because electricity has a lot of losses when transmitted long distances. The other problem with round the clock electric generation is that during evening hours, a lot of energy is expended simply turning generators with little load.

The holy grail of energy inventions is a small efficient electric generator to power your house or car. Somebody invent something!

[Stark]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I') agree that there is some marginal heating function provided by computers etc. However . . .
The heat produced by appliances makes makes your refrigerator and freezer and air-conditioning system less efficient.
Most of the U.S. doesn't enjoy your situation with cool summers. In a fast-warming world, cooling will be more important than heating in the future.
Bear in mind that lots of energy is wasted during the mining or pumping of the fuel that eventually creates the electricity used to run your appliances. A lot of electricity is wasted during transmission over wires, too. Every gizmo you plug in is only adding to the total problem and accelerating the day of reckoning.

[agni]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stark', 'F')requently I see people in forums relating to energy conservation talk about electric appliances and light bulbs and such as if they "use up" energy, as if this energy just disappears into nothingness.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stark', 'I')'m not sure why you say that appliance heat would make refrigerators less efficient. This would only be true if the appliances are heating the home to a hotter temperature than one would like. Otherwise, they would have no effect on the refrigerator at all, unless they were radiating heat directly onto it.

[sjn]

Actually I heat my house with computers for what it's worth. I've got no central heating, I do have a couple of gas fires but I don't use them, and electric water heater (which I use only when I need hot water).

[Stark]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stark', 'I')'m not sure why you say that appliance heat would make refrigerators less efficient. This would only be true if the appliances are heating the home to a hotter temperature than one would like. Otherwise, they would have no effect on the refrigerator at all, unless they were radiating heat directly onto it.

[eric_b]

I use my computer + monitor as a space heater in the Winter. I can turn
off the heat to my room often.

However, in the Summer it's another matter.

Living in Wisconsin I've got no AC... so on these 90+ (F) degree days my room
gets rather.... warm. Especially when computer + huge ass CRT are on. I hate
hot weather.

(Sitting in room wearing nothing but underwear, still sweating, with a fan blowing
hot air on me).

[I_Like_Plants]

Hmm maybe this winter I'll just take my oscilloscpe to bed with me (it blows warm air out the sides when it's on). javascript:emoticon(':P')

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stark', 'A')ctually, they aren't. One of the basic laws of the universe says that energy cannot be destroyed, it merely changes form. So the electric energy that your computer runs off of is not being destroyed. Where is it going? It is being turned into heat, virtually all of it, just as an electric baseboard heater turns all its electricity into heat. Since computers are about 100% efficient at turning their energy into heat already, electric heaters cannot be any more efficient than this.

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stark', 'A')ctually, they aren't. One of the basic laws of the universe says that energy cannot be destroyed, it merely changes form. So the electric energy that your computer runs off of is not being destroyed. Where is it going? It is being turned into heat, virtually all of it, just as an electric baseboard heater turns all its electricity into heat. Since computers are about 100% efficient at turning their energy into heat already, electric heaters cannot be any more efficient than this.

[Heineken]

Well, now you know why I got a C in physics.

I guess one could purify the basic question this way: Does 100% of the heat energy generated inside a closed, heavily insulated compartment (part of a theoretical appliance, let's say) get transferred to the outside of the compartment? I'd think that some of the heat would be lost (transferred as kinetic energy) in exciting the molecules in the insulation, plastic shielding, etc., and never make it outside the compartment. Heat CAN be absorbed, can't it?

My water heater, like most water heaters, is on all the time. It's heavily insulated, and the outside of it feels cool, year after year. I know the heat is going into the water, but as a space heater the water heater is useless. That's my basic quibble with the poster who started this forum.

Energy cannot be destroyed, but it can be altered. Heat is only one form of energy, and when it encounters resistance not of all it makes it to the other side as heat---I think.

I know I'm just guessing here, so I'd love to be educated on this specific point by someone with the right educational background.

[Caoimhan]

Let's put it this way, if the insulation were to absorb heat and never give it back up to the surrounding environment, it would slowly heat up and eventually melt, and then vaporize. But that doesn't happen.
Thermal insulation doesn't work by absorbing heat... it slows the transfer of heat from one side to the other. The insulation does warm up some, but it is re-radiated from the other side of the insulation.

Basically, heat always goes somewhere. If you had a 100% insulated house, and NO heat ever escaped, and the only heat source was your own body heat... it would eventually build up inside that house, and you would die from the elevated temperatures.
Some people have built houses so tightly, with such good insulation that body heat alone was sufficient to keep the house warm in Winter. But the hardest part with THAT, is that you HAVE to have some air exchange, not only to bring in fresh oxygen, but also to de-humidify the air (because you also perspire into the air, raising the humidity). Highly efficient heat-exchanging ventilators (where the cool, dry incoming air is prewarmed by the moist, warm outgoing air) can help with that, but still represent a loss in heat energy from the system.

More practical, however, is a house that has good insulation, but the combination of body heat, appliance heat, and passive solar all combine to keep the house comfortable in Winter. This can be achieved with intelligent design, and the use of thermal masses that can absorb heat during the daytime, and re-radiate it at night. Thermal masses are not insulators. They are usually stuccos, masonry, specialized cement, or masses of water.
To be really energy efficient, the use of high-efficiency appliances is ideal, where the heating comes exclusively from body heat and passive solar.

Another thread also mentioned how passive solar can be used for cooling during warm seasons, too. Truly intelligent design can create a 4-season passive solar heating AND cooling system.

[JoeW]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', ' ')Thermal masses are not insulators. They are usually stuccos, masonry, specialized cement, or masses of water.

[Heineken]

I think today's homes and buildings are too sealed off from the outside air. A lot of human illness is traceable to this. So there's a big trade-off right there for all that wonderful insulation.

I heat my place entirely with wood (of which I have an infinite supply from my land) and leave the windows partly open all winter. If I don't, the place overheats! On days with no wind, a downdraft sometimes puts a little smoke into the house, which is my own heating-related health bugaboo. Still, I feel I'm healthier overall not inhaling people's recycled germs and formadelhyde fumes from carpeting etc.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I') think today's homes and buildings are too sealed off from the outside air. A lot of human illness is traceable to this. So there's a big trade-off right there for all that wonderful insulation.