[Keith_McClary]

April 28, 2015
Sunfire, Audi en route to synthetic fuel of future
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')amely, sunfire has succeeded in producing synthetic diesel from air, water and "green" electrical energy, and "an independent laboratory confirmed that the outstanding characteristics of the fuel are superior to the properties of fossil fuel." The synthetic sunfire diesel is particularly eco-friendly. As sunfire CTO Christian von Olshausen said, "The engine runs quieter and fewer pollutants are being created." The fuel is promoted as superior partly because the properties are such that the engine runs smoothly with fewer emissions. The fuel is free from sulfur and aromatic hydrocarbons,

[Graeme]

More on the above story:

Audi Makes Synthetic Gasoline Using Zero Petroleum

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')esearchers at Audi have managed to do something that at first blush sounds impossible, or at least, highly illogical: They’ve created a small batch of synthetic gasoline without using any petroleum whatsoever. And they’re working to tweak the process so they can create the fuel using nothing but water, hydrogen, sunlight, and carbon dioxide.

Audi’s “e-benzin” is a fully synthetic 100-octane gasoline equivalent. Since it’s synthetic, it contains no sulfur or benzene, making it extremely clean-burning. With its research partner Gloabl Bioenergies, Audi has figured out how to create the synthetic fuel from biomass, or plant material, making the fuel carbon-neutral.

An Audi spokesperson tells us that, as of right now, the experiment has only produced a small amount of the fuel—think liters, not tanker trucks—and the next step is to test its performance in internal combustion engines in a lab setting. It’s a line of experimentation that Audi has been particularly focused on, having recently figured out how to synthesize diesel fuel from water and CO2 and operating a production facility that makes synthetic methane out of water, hydrogen, and CO2 to fuel the CNG-powered A3 Sportback g-tron.

[Keith_McClary]

From:
will-we-ever-discover-an-alternative-to-oil-t71468-20.html#p1255012
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StarvingLion', 'I') especially like this one where they show the solar refinery:
https://mitei.mit.edu/system/files/Sola ... r_0805.pdf

[lpetrich]

Blue crude: Audi pilot produces diesel fuel from CO2 and water : Renew EconomyAudi has successfully made diesel fuel from carbon dioxide and water - ScienceAlert

The process:

• Electrolysis of water: H2O -> H2 + (1/2) O2
• Combine with CO2: CO2 + 3H2 -> [CH2] + 2 H2O

The [CH2] is the "blue crude".

It has the nice property of being free from aromatic hydrocarbons (those with benzene rings) and sulfur, so it's relatively clean-burning.

They estimate a cost of 1 to 1.5 euros / liter, about $4 to $6 per gallon.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lpetrich', '[')url=http://reneweconomy.com.au/2015/blue-crude-audi-pilot-produces-diesel-fuel-from-co2-and-water-66638]Blue crude: Audi pilot produces diesel fuel from CO2 and water : Renew Economy[/url]Audi has successfully made diesel fuel from carbon dioxide and water - ScienceAlert

The process:

• Electrolysis of water: H2O -> H2 + (1/2) O2
• Combine with CO2: CO2 + 3H2 -> [CH2] + 2 H2O

The [CH2] is the "blue crude".

It has the nice property of being free from aromatic hydrocarbons (those with benzene rings) and sulfur, so it's relatively clean-burning.

They estimate a cost of 1 to 1.5 euros / liter, about $4 to $6 per gallon.

[hvacman]

Magical chemistry! Sounds like Audi's engineers discovered the "blue" formula made famous by the renowned (and fictional) chemist Walter White to "power" their design centers.

All kidding aside, this particular process is a variation of the Sabetier reaction and has been around for about a century. Yes, it can be done. Does it make sense? Very likely only if you are really-really-really desperate for a liquid hydrocarbon fuel and don't care to use your limited renewable energy in a more efficient way. I strongly suspect that there is some outrageously optimistic energy accounting going on to come up with $4-$6/gallon. Not that the Audi-VW people have ever tried to fictionalize their engineering when it comes to diesels.

[ROCKMAN]

Are you sure about the "CH2"? CH4 is actually methane. Thanks all the same but I'll let someone else burn the time figuring this one out. LOL.

But this might be a hint as to what they mean by "CH2":

The simplest organic compounds are composed of carbon and hydrogen and are known as hydrocarbons. There are four types, or classes, of hydrocarbons:

Alkanes: contain all C-C single bonds. These are known as saturated hydrocarbons.
Alkenes: contain at least one C=C double bond.
Alkynes: contain at least one C≡C triple bond. Both alkenes and alkynes are known as
unsaturated hydrocarbons
Aromatic hydrocarbons: contain a benzene structure

These are also called structural formulas. Since these take up a lot of space, condensed structural
formulas are used. So a hydrocarbon chain with 10 H's and 4 C's could be written: H3C-CH2-CH2-Ch3.

Beyond that you should take a course in organic chemistry. LOL

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'A')re you sure about the "CH2"? CH4 is actually methane. Thanks all the same but I'll let someone else burn the time figuring this one out. LOL.

But this might be a hint as to what they mean by "CH2":

The simplest organic compounds are composed of carbon and hydrogen and are known as hydrocarbons. There are four types, or classes, of hydrocarbons:

Alkanes: contain all C-C single bonds. These are known as saturated hydrocarbons.
Alkenes: contain at least one C=C double bond.
Alkynes: contain at least one C≡C triple bond. Both alkenes and alkynes are known as
unsaturated hydrocarbons
Aromatic hydrocarbons: contain a benzene structure

These are also called structural formulas. Since these take up a lot of space, condensed structural
formulas are used. So a hydrocarbon chain with 10 H's and 4 C's could be written: H3C-CH2-CH2-Ch3.

Beyond that you should take a course in organic chemistry. LOL

[lpetrich]

The [CH2] I meant as a shorthand for large hydrocarbons. For instance, octane is C8H18, or 8(CH2)H2.

[Subjectivist]

The US Navy has prototyped a module to use nuclear electricity on aircraft carriers to manufacture jet fuel and eliminate the need for oil tankers.

https://youtu.be/G8zOHZINyG8

[ROCKMAN]

Sub - Outstanding! I assume it costs more then the available fuel from the market place. Maybe a lot more. Fortunately for the Blue shirts it's not their money. LOL.

Just like when I had a company truck and gas card: went with a V8 4WD. Unlike the Kia I that I bought and paid for the fuel out of my pocket. LOL.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'S')ub - Outstanding! I assume it costs more then the available fuel from the market place. Maybe a lot more. Fortunately for the Blue shirts it's not their money. LOL.

Just like when I had a company truck and gas card: went with a V8 4WD. Unlike the Kia I that I bought and paid for the fuel out of my pocket. LOL.

[Tanada]

This is actually something I have been predicting the Navy would do for decades, I guess it took sustained $80/bbl oil prices to get them moving on it. Sounds like now that it is ready it could be a major benefit.

For all those that disparage nuclear power stations on the coast, this could actually be an effective way of using power when 'renewables' are at peak performance to synthesize fuel. That would actually recycle some human CO2 emissions and lower the ocean acidity while also eliminating the need for fossil fuels.

[diemos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')The quoted cost is $2.70/gallon for jet fuel onboard the carrier vs $6.60/gallon for jet fuel delivered from shore to ship via high speed navy tanker ship.

Until they start deploying them on existing aircraft carriers I will take those numbers with a hefty lump of salt.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('diemos', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')The quoted cost is $2.70/gallon for jet fuel onboard the carrier vs $6.60/gallon for jet fuel delivered from shore to ship via high speed navy tanker ship.

Until they start deploying them on existing aircraft carriers I will take those numbers with a hefty lump of salt.

[lpetrich]

I found a followup to Audi's "blue crude" e-diesel: FIRST COMMERCIAL PLANT FOR THE PRODUCTION OF BLUE CRUDE PLANNED IN NORWAY - Sunfire
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Blue Crude is created in a highly efficient, three-stage process, developed by Sunfire and consists of a patented power-to-liquid procedure employing nothing but water, CO2 and renewable energy – in Norway the continuously available, cost-efficient green energy from hydropower is put to use. The core element is the steam electrolysis process (SOEC) that efficiently splits steam into its components hydrogen and oxygen. Subsequently the CO2 is transformed into carbon monoxide (CO) and then the synthesis towards Blue Crude is effectuated. The gaseous CO2, employed as carbon source, is partly extracted on-site from the ambient air by using the Direct Air Capture (DAC) technology, developed by the Swiss company Climeworks. Especially the exploitation of the waste heat from the Sunfire process makes the DAC technology highly efficient.

[Newfie]

So basically they are using the excess available water to power the process?

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'S')o basically they are using the excess available water to power the process?

[lpetrich]

30 billion barrels ~= 3.7 - 4.1 billion metric tons of crude oil (275 - 300 lbs/bbl).

2 euros/liter ~= 8.86 dollars/gallon at current exchange rates.