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Genesis of an American Gestapo

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Genesis of an American Gestapo

Unread postby Carlhole » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 04:36:58

http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=13721&s2=16

"...The National Security Service, which is an autonomous, domestic spy-agency, signals a tectonic shift in the political landscape. The genesis of the Police State marks the end of American democracy; the final wooden stake to the heart of privacy, security and personal liberty. Bush’s meteoric rise to power has been accompanied by a breakdown of traditional safeguards at every juncture; leaving the system vulnerable to incalculable damage. The message to citizens is clear; all of the institutions upon which democratic societies depend (the executive, the Congress, the Judiciary, the media, the military, and law enforcement) have withered beneath the Bush onslaught and been reduced to rubble. The entire system has been corrupted from top to bottom. America is a gaunt, skeletal figure; rattling around in its cage, ready to be blown over by the first brisk wind. Democracy is dead.

Now, will someone please tell the American people?"
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Unread postby shakespear1 » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 11:16:04

Carlhole

Looks like no one wants to enter this arena. The word Gestapo may have scare people.

However I went a journey which went sort of like this

1) You story
Genesis of an American Gestapo
Mike Whitney

2) On that wen page there was link to this story
:: What happened in Kurdish Halabja?

FLASHBACK: Report Suppressed: Iran Gassed Kurds, Not Iraq
Raju Thomas, Times of India

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=12256

3) There I saw the names from Us Army War College so it does not sound like CT types

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')professors Stephen Pelletiere and Leif Rosenberger,
and Lt Colonel Douglas Johnson of the US Army War College (USAWC)
undertook a study of the use of chemical weapons by Iran and Iraq
in order to better understand battlefield chemical warfare. They
concluded that it was Iran and not Iraq that killed the Kurds.


4) The a GOOGLE search led me to this story

Kurds

A War Crime Or An Act of War?
Who really gassed the Kurds?
By STEPHEN C. PELLETIERE

We are constantly reminded that Iraq has perhaps the world's largest reserves of oil. But in a regional and perhaps even geopolitical sense, it may be more important that Iraq has the most extensive river system in the Middle East. In addition to the Tigris and Euphrates, there are the Greater Zab and Lesser Zab rivers in the north of the country. Iraq was covered with irrigation works by the sixth century A.D., and was a granary for the region.

Before the Persian Gulf war, Iraq had built an impressive system of dams and river control projects, the largest being the Darbandikhan dam in the Kurdish area. And it was this dam the Iranians were aiming to take control of when they seized Halabja. In the 1990's there was much discussion over the construction of a so-called Peace Pipeline that would bring the waters of the Tigris and Euphrates south to the parched Gulf states and, by extension, Israel. No progress has been made on this, largely because of Iraqi intransigence. With Iraq in American hands, of course, all that could change.

Thus America could alter the destiny of the Middle East in a way that probably could not be challenged for decades — not solely by controlling Iraq's oil, but by controlling its water. Even if America didn't occupy the country, once Mr. Hussein's Baath Party is driven from power, many lucrative opportunities would open up for American companies.

All that is needed to get us into war is one clear reason for acting, one that would be generally persuasive. But efforts to link the Iraqis directly to Osama bin Laden have proved inconclusive. Assertions that Iraq threatens its neighbors have also failed to create much resolve; in its present debilitated condition — thanks to United Nations sanctions — Iraq's conventional forces threaten no one.

Perhaps the strongest argument left for taking us to war quickly is that Saddam Hussein has committed human rights atrocities against his people. And the most dramatic case are the accusations about Halabja.

Before we go to war over Halabja, the administration owes the American people the full facts. And if it has other examples of Saddam Hussein gassing Kurds, it must show that they were not pro-Iranian Kurdish guerrillas who died fighting alongside Iranian Revolutionary Guards. Until Washington gives us proof of Saddam Hussein's supposed atrocities, why are we picking on Iraq on human rights grounds, particularly when there are so many other repressive regimes Washington supports?

Stephen C. Pelletiere is author of "Iraq and the International Oil System: Why America Went to War in the Persian Gulf."


Yes, there are other PO's, dare we call it PW.

I say this to people over and over that it is amazing that we NEED TO BUY bottled water. Not so long ago bottled water was sold at the same price as a gallon of gasoline. Those were crazy days. :roll: :roll:
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Unread postby shakespear1 » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 11:18:50

Oh, that last link in my wandering led me to this

Author Theorizes 40 Microbiologists Killed Before Unleashing "The Ultimate Epidemic."
Free Press International
1.24.2005

Risky Job
Men argue, nature acts !
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Unread postby Specop_007 » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 12:13:02

To say we're moving to a police state is not entirely false.
To blame it soley on Bush is borderline criminal in ones short sightedness and ignorance.
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Unread postby TheTurtle » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 16:18:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')o say we're moving to a police state is not entirely false.


In fact, it is entirely true. George Orwell was a bloody prophet!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')o blame it soley on Bush is borderline criminal in ones short sightedness and ignorance.


Can we then blame it partially on Bush? :lol:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')excuse me. environmentalists and liberals do not gas people. facists do.


I'm no fan of Bush, but ...

I think that just as one can label the extreme conservatives as "fascist", one can just as easily label the extreme liberals as "communist".

That being the case, when we look at Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot, I think we have to conclude that liberals might not gas people, but they do find all sorts of other ways to do in the people that don't fit into their agenda.

So ... let's hear it for environmentalists! :P
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Unread postby TheTurtle » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 20:10:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', 'T')hat being the case, when we look at Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot


I hear this over and over, especially from the right. I grew up knowing that the Nazis were the bad guys. It seems only with the rise of the American right have Stalin and Pol Pot become such devils. For me, the Final Solution remains the granddaddy of all ethnic cleansings. The Russians, Cambodians, and the rest were beginners. Well maybe American slavery comes close.


I agree that the Nazis were bad guys. But please don't try to diminish the atrocitites committed by Stalin, Pol Pot or Mao. They were devils long before the American right came to be.

I have only read of Stalin, but he is said to have been responsible for 10 to 20 million deaths.

I was living in Thailand in 1975 and 1976 and I personally saw the flow of refugees that fled Pol Pot. They were a sad and miserable lot, but they were the ones who got away. Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge are said to have killed over 1.5 million people (some say more than 3 million). Cambodia today is a ruined nation.

And Mao -- well, admittedly he had a lot more to work with, but he is often credited with being responsible for the deaths of 70 million. If you weren't following politics at the time, research Mao's Cultural Revolution (or go back a couple of decades and look at his Great Leap Forward). The misery he caused is chilling.

I am no right winger, by any stretch of the imagination, but I think one must despise the communist dictators every bit as much as one does the fascists. Because ulimately both sides have caused a great deal of human suffering.
“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
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Unread postby BiGG » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 20:11:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')
excuse me. environmentalists and liberals do not gas people. facists do.


I think the liberals plan is to bore us to death having to listen to the cheesy candidates they keep running; they don’t have to worry about gassing anybody.
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well from my perspective

Unread postby Cool Hand Linc » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 20:51:10

Well, from my perspective..........

I guess its all a matter of perspective.

If one wants they can rationalize anything. Rationalization doesn't mean you will have others seeing things your way.

The rich rationalize that they earned what they have. The poor rationalize that the rich are ripping off the poor man.

A thief rationalizes his actions. A rapist rationalizes his actions.

A vegetarian rationalizes their position and a meat eater does as well.

A Christian rationalizes their beliefs and a muslim rationalizes their beliefs. All people rationalize their belief structures.

You are completely free to rationalize what ever makes you happy.

The problem develops when 2 rationalize differently and are unable to work out a compromise that allows both to have their individual beliefs (rationalizations) while still allowing the other to have theirs as well.

When I see President Bush standing and his hand in a waving gesture and a sign a friendliness and a picture of Hitler with his hand in a rigid salute. I don't see the same man. Of course I am looking at the way the hand is being held and the smile as opposed to the rigid arm and the straight face.

I do suspect that if the muslim world doesn't begin to help stop the terrorist that many innocent muslims will eventually become targets of profiling.

You will I am sure see this in a way that indicates your position before it all starts and I will see it from mine. I will see it as an attempt to protect innocent individuals from ruthless suicide attacks. You will see it as innocent individuals being targeted for their religion or color or what have you.

Its all a matter of perspective......
Peace out!

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Unread postby Geology_Guy » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 14:07:27

Others besides Bush are helping to build our police state. Now thanks to the Dems and the media we can't out CIA agents anymore. Back in the 1960's thru 1980's thats all the left wanted to do! Yes I know there is a law against it, but even Sen. Schumer voted to oppose this law.
Remember Iran-Contra? Chile? Iran? Now we have to treat the CIA with kid gloves? The Dems had better wake up and remember who they are and who the CIA is.
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