Hey Newfi- You wrote
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Flat Earth Society holds that Fogo, Newfoundland, Canada, Northern HemiSPHERE happens to be close to my family home. I have been been there, several times. I've taken my sailboat around it. I did not fall off.T
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Re: Math is Religion, Pythagoras proved earth NOT a sphere
by daveflat » Tue 14 Mar 2017, 16:22:04
First, how come I have to answer everyones questions but very very few ever address mine (just kidding around but true)????
Now, I never stated I endorsed flat earth soceties beliefs, HOWEVER, I checked there map and it looks correct to the one I use as the current working model to prove as possible. If that makes sense, basically I do NOT have ANY IDEA about alot of things (My main contention currently is that the EARTH IS NOT A BALL) thats why I would prefer to address my questions but If you can DISprove what I currently accept as possible, ESPECIALLY because you DID IT, I'm good with that!
I'm really not good at identifying countries from shape but the belief I hold as currently "possible" is that at the "edge of the map" we are surrounded by an ice wall (there are photos that show a giant ice wall exists, whether possible or true I DO NOT CLAIM to know), there are NUMEROUS Explorers who have stated that they sailed next to a wall of ice 100 to 200 ft high for thousands of miles never making it to the end of the wall, I will find the quotes if you want me too (theres videos about the expolorers on youtube also.
I'll ask you, Is it possible to take a route by boat around the countries you stated on the flat map, like is there a way by water that that could be accomplished, within the ring of water surrounding the continents ( i'm embarrassed to admit, I have no idea from looking at flat earth map myself lol)?
Also related to your question, if you go to flight radar sights (they track aircraft), there is always lots of flying activity ALWAYS above the oceans in the northern (i'll use the term that we know) hemisphere, BUT if you look at flights that go across the oceans in the southern hemisphere THEY ALWAYS LOSE RADAR contact over water- YOU WILL NOT SEE FLIGHTS tracked over southern hemisphere, ever even when IT WOULD BE THE MOST LOGICAL route to take. Related to that, if you watch aircraft emergencies, when aircraft divert to make emergency landings often they fly to a place that seems "illogical" on a round earth, BUT if you look at where they diverted too on a flat map it makes PERFECT sense BECAUSE on a FLAT MAP a STRAIGHT LINE WILL ALWAYS BE THE FASTEST ROUTE!
I really am not attached to any of my current beliefs except so far two, I am having a helluva time seeing ANYONE prove that water curves to the earth and now this whole flying thing where my friends brother is a former navy pilot and current commercial airline pilot and his direct words to me were THIS- $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') do not need to adjust (manually or automated by plane) the attitude of the plane EVER and I can travel around the world, This is due to gravity.
WHICH I ADDRESSED IN THIS PREVIOUS POST (below) THAT EXPLAINS WHY SOMEONE HERE SAID WHAT CLEARLY CONTRADICTS AS POSSIBLE WHAT MY PILOT FRIEND SAID. WTF??????? Go back and read the entire thread leading up to that point, I found it super interesting!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')
Re: Math is Religion, Pythagoras proved earth NOT a sphere
Postby daveflat » Mon 13 Mar 2017, 14:59:54
KAISERJEEP VERY IMPORTANT!!!! I just spoke on the phone with my friends brother ALLAN, he is a professional commercial PILOT and his statement DIRECTLY contradicts your PREDICTION of how he MUST operate the aircraft. He said that he could operate the plane over water at any distance or altitude that he can fly the aircraft perfectly level at ALL times without himself or the aircraft EVER making any adjustments with respect to the ATTITUDE of the aircraft because GRAVITY causes the aircraft to fly over the curvature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO who is right the PROFESSIONAL PILOT or KASIERJEEP??????????????????
Below is KAISERJEEPS explanation as to how an aircraft MUST continuously adjust for earths CURVATURE!!!!! CONTRADICTION ALERT CONTRADICTION ALERT CONTRADICTION ALERT
Postby KaiserJeep » Sat 11 Mar 2017, 18:16:18
The pilot - or more often today, the autopilot - is continuously adjusting the attitude of the plane to maintain "level" flight (remember that in this context "level" is not a straight line, but defined as a 90 degree angle from a line connecting the plane and the Earth's center of gravity) and constant altitude above mean sea level. In spite of Newton's first law of motion, the airplane will not maintain a straight line, due to winds, air pressures, and air currents - all which are larger forces that overcome the inertia of straight line travel. The "altitude" is really a constant distance from the Earth's center of gravity - a "constant altitude of 20 feet" above your perfect sphere would be a perfect globe-shaped shell 40 feet greater in diameter than the Earth itself, and located as to have the same center of gravity as the planet.
I am reasonably familiar with gyroscopes which are used in SINS (ships inertial navigation systems). The gyroscopes you speak of, which used to be precision high speed rotating instruments made by Sperry among others, are today much more precise "ring laser gyros" where light travels in a circle at "the speed of light". These can be entirely contained in one component soldered into a circuit board. Gyros are "rotation sensors", and if you took one entirely around the earth, it would point one degree in a different direction as you moved North-South or South-North, for every "degree of longitude" you travelled on the Earth's surface, a distance of about 69 miles, in the 24,840 "statute miles" of the Earth's circumference. Then 1/60th of that 69 mile distance is a "minute" of longitude, or a distance of "one nautical mile" which is about 1.15078 "statute miles".
Gyroscopes are in fact not directly usable for navigation, and the term "gyrocompass" is nonsensical, because as you pointed out, the axis of the compass is always pointing in the same direction. A "gyrocompass" actually measures how far the axis of the gyro deviates from the direction of travel, using the axis "zero" when the gyroscope was spun up, then calculates the direction of North, and points an electric compass needle in that direction. Movement is measured by another instrument called an "accelerometer". Today the ring laser gyro, the accelerometer, a 12-channel GPS receiver, and a computer to calculate your position on the Earth's surface, can all be built into your cell phone.
That's right, your phone is continuously calculating your position, both with GPS and with inertial navigation when it doesn't have GPS signals. This is done "for your own good" in case you are in distress and call 911 here in America, or for "the good of the USA" if you are a terrorist in Afghanistan, so we can rain a missile down on you from a UAV.
Last edited by KaiserJeep on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 18:23:30, edited 1 time in total.
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So Flat, Ball, Triangle, I DO NOT CARE, what shape the earth ends up being but some of explanations to explain this place as a ball just DO NOT WORK. Hope you can help me - THANKS
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Re: Math is Religion, Pythagoras proved earth NOT a sphere
by Newfie » Wed 15 Mar 2017, 09:37:52
Dave,
1. I'm in San Salvador, Bahamas. On a good day the Internet sucks, so cut me some slack on my responses.
2. San Salvador is Germaine to the discussion because this is the first place Christopher Columbus touched land in the New World. He made it here because he believed the Earth was round, a ball, and bet his life upon that belief. Now his math sucked and he missed India, but that's amateur of scale and not principal.
3. I would suggest you read Joshua Slocum, Sailing Alone Around the World. When in South Africa he found the official government opinion, based on their religion, was a flat Earth and he got a very cold greeting. He has some interesting observations on the matter and the book is a fun read.
4. I've read a fair bit of Arctic and some Antarctic explorations. Just yesterday I finished FitzRoys book on mapping the Magellan Channel. I've can't recall a single person on any of those trips who had any inclination the Earth was flat. The only references to high ice walls of which you speak are from very, very early explorers who made the first attempts at going North. For a long time there was an idea that the North Pole had a warm sea. This lead to the famous Franklin Expedition which set out to prove or disprove that theory. Unfortunately they all died in that effort. But even Franklin was under no impression of the world being flat. Here's why...
5. Navigation (sextant) uses the positions of the stars and time to triangulate your position on a SPHERE. If the Earth were no roughly round then none of the math to find your way around would work. You need to assume the world is round in order to navigate. No other shape works.
There are many more points but I will leave them aside for the moment.
I'm very interested in the sources you have seen that claim to have meet tall walls of ice. Please send me some info on those sources. Who they were, what expedition, WHAT YEAR, their course. No links please, I can't open them. I need you to work with me here and give me some raw data.
1. I'm in San Salvador, Bahamas. On a good day the Internet sucks, so cut me some slack on my responses.
2. San Salvador is Germaine to the discussion because this is the first place Christopher Columbus touched land in the New World. He made it here because he believed the Earth was round, a ball, and bet his life upon that belief. Now his math sucked and he missed India, but that's amateur of scale and not principal.
3. I would suggest you read Joshua Slocum, Sailing Alone Around the World. When in South Africa he found the official government opinion, based on their religion, was a flat Earth and he got a very cold greeting. He has some interesting observations on the matter and the book is a fun read.
4. I've read a fair bit of Arctic and some Antarctic explorations. Just yesterday I finished FitzRoys book on mapping the Magellan Channel. I've can't recall a single person on any of those trips who had any inclination the Earth was flat. The only references to high ice walls of which you speak are from very, very early explorers who made the first attempts at going North. For a long time there was an idea that the North Pole had a warm sea. This lead to the famous Franklin Expedition which set out to prove or disprove that theory. Unfortunately they all died in that effort. But even Franklin was under no impression of the world being flat. Here's why...
5. Navigation (sextant) uses the positions of the stars and time to triangulate your position on a SPHERE. If the Earth were no roughly round then none of the math to find your way around would work. You need to assume the world is round in order to navigate. No other shape works.
There are many more points but I will leave them aside for the moment.
I'm very interested in the sources you have seen that claim to have meet tall walls of ice. Please send me some info on those sources. Who they were, what expedition, WHAT YEAR, their course. No links please, I can't open them. I need you to work with me here and give me some raw data.
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Re: Math is Religion, Pythagoras proved earth NOT a sphere
by dissident » Wed 15 Mar 2017, 10:09:59
Too much coddling of this troll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V3rmDG5J8A
See, all the stars rotate around Polaris and are not some points on a tapestry over the Earth as claimed by these flat Earth nutjobs.
There is a reason why shortwave radio signals are used: they effectively bounce off the ionosphere. If they did not have this behaviour then it would not be possible to listen to shortwave radio even in the same hemisphere let alone on the other side of the planet. And it is clear that the ionosphere reflector is being used since the best reception times are during the night when the Sun's effect on the ionosphere is at its minimum. If the Earth was flat any radio signal could be used to transmit around the world, including wavelengths not affected by solar fluxes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V3rmDG5J8A
See, all the stars rotate around Polaris and are not some points on a tapestry over the Earth as claimed by these flat Earth nutjobs.
There is a reason why shortwave radio signals are used: they effectively bounce off the ionosphere. If they did not have this behaviour then it would not be possible to listen to shortwave radio even in the same hemisphere let alone on the other side of the planet. And it is clear that the ionosphere reflector is being used since the best reception times are during the night when the Sun's effect on the ionosphere is at its minimum. If the Earth was flat any radio signal could be used to transmit around the world, including wavelengths not affected by solar fluxes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave
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Re: Math is Religion, Pythagoras proved earth NOT a sphere
by Ibon » Wed 15 Mar 2017, 18:18:10
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', 'T')oo much coddling of this troll.
Yep
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