[daveflat]

Dude, you REALLY need to brush up on your reading COMPREHENSION skills--AS PER KAISERJEEP $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]The pilot - or more often today, the autopilot - is continuously adjusting the attitude of the plane to maintain "level" flight

[KaiserJeep]

OK, let me make this clear: we are right and you are wrong.

You simply have no grasp of the size of the world, or of simple arithmetic, for that matter. We have already told you that the scale or the round planet is such that you cannot perceive any curvature of the Earth from any altitude less than Low Earth Orbit. The testimony of a Navy pilot is useless and so would be any testimony of anyone, unless they were an astronaut with at least one trip into orbit, or one of the few commercial passengers in space.

This is your last thread that I will participate in, because I believe that you are a waste of time. However, if you want to end the nonsense and sensibly participate in one of the topics we enjoy here, you would be welcome to do so. After a suitable period measured in weeks after you have complied with both the written and unwritten standards here, I would again answer any questions that you have.

If you are truly representing a belief that the Earth is flat, you are wasting your time here. Go find a web page for wackos.

[dolanbaker]

As the plane is always the same distance from the centre of gravity it is always about the same altitude above sea level, it does not need to "steer downwards" to follow the curvature of the earth.

Do you find the following more believable?

[daveflat]

dolonbaker- According to kaiserjeep YOU are INCORRECT The pilot -A DIRECT QUOTE from KAISERJEEP $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'o')r more often today, the autopilot - is continuously adjusting the attitude of the plane to maintain "level" flight (remember that in this context "level" is not a straight line, but defined as a 90 degree angle

[dolanbaker]

What is the game?
What is wrong with the Pearl Harbour image, is the image centred on the wrong part of the Earth or something.

[Ibon]

You guys have nothing better to do than to be baited by this nutcase?

[KaiserJeep]

I believe in the oil peak and the exhaustion of all FF's. I don't believe in the flat Earth or Zombies.

[daveflat]

Hi MODS, the post by ibon is a pure ad hominem ATTACK. It clutters and discredits the work of the people on this board who have put in a considerable amount of time most to help me answer my questions. I would like ibons post removed from this thread if you agree with me.

I have mentioned before and I will say again that I am a chocolate business owner in NJ. My name is David Hicks and I live in NJ. I also stated that if you google me you will see my photo with Asst attrny General of NJ (im guy in the purple shirt.) Would a troll give that much personal information about themselves, I think not. I am searching for the truth and do not mind being laughed at by others BUT, ibons post clearly offers nothing of value and detracts potential readers from investigating further.

I hope (even considering the unusual nature of my questions) that if you read through the thread you will see I have put in alot of time and effort with a few other people (mostly Cog and Kaiserjeep) moving the questions along to the point that we actually have two contra arguments made NOT by myself but by dolanbaker, and kaiserjeep, along with verbal testimony from a professional pilot (my friends brother) who explained how an aircraft operates. I really would like to see who the board determines is correct,if either, because I honestly do not have the math skills to determine that answer by myself, which is one of the main reasons I am here, to get an answer to my question .

It is ALMOST infuriating (and scary) to me that so many here could read through this thread and come to the conclusion (as SO MANY HAVE) that I am a troll, I am STUPID, I am CRAZY, when the content has actually been fairly detailed and usually presented articulately all while the likelyhood of a viable determination to my original statement MOVED forward. The amount of Cognitive Dissonance in this thread is HARD to believe.

I have NEVER tested a statement before and it is so INTERESTING to me, it seems that myself and a few other posters have actually made it to the point where we can test and prove out an answer. I believe the ANSWER has already been written right here today, but so far NOT A SINGLE PERSON here has been willing to ACCEPT to let the FACTS FALL where they may. I am hoping that changes tonoght or tomorrow when 1/2 of the US is covered in snow.

And ibon please do participate if you have more to offer than cheap name calling.

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation”

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('daveflat', 'H')i MODS, the post by ibon is a pure ad hominem ATTACK.

[daveflat]

To everyone here. This is so disappointing. I came here after being kicked off the peakoilbarrel website posting on the march 3rd non oil related thread, right where you would expect to find such conversation (even as non conventional a thought as it is).

The day I was kicked off pob, My original post was posted (I had read ron since TOD) by Ron, I was kinda surprised(that he posted it at first) and HOPEFUL for someone there to rationally answer the questions I posed. It turned out he posted it to make an example of me. I thought fine, I do not mind people laughing at me, I will present enough evidence to get them interested so that then we could thoughtfully examine the idea (flat earth), IO was excited at the opportunity to present my argument to a group of people I had considered intelligent adults.

Instead it was like everyone there mutated into raving little kids, mocking me, calling me a troll, with a few "trying " to help me answer my questions by their OWN means, but very seldom DIRECTLY addressing the questions I posed. I honestly thought (like I do here) that if presented a logical argument (even though the subject matter is extremely fringe at best) that I would awaken the inquisitive "SPIRIT" in a few people here AND there.

BUT GROUPTHINK it looks like has taken over the WORLD. I have stated repeatedly I am here because I have poor math skills, I still consider my logic and reasoning skills to be superior to many so I do not consider myself unintelligent either.

My friend (who we'll call R) is the one with the brother who is the PROFESSIONAL COMMERCIAL airline pilot I called today, has slowly come to the point of he himself questioning more and more of the things that I have bought up to him over the last few weeks, as I cannot stop myself from thinking of this information and bringing it up in conversations with him (he has a HIGH level position in FINANCE whatever that means).

The first time I mentioned some of my thoughts to my friend (R) that are not so conventional he was very abrupt and clear with me in his lack of interest in the subject. As you can see though I am not one to give up easily, I also can become obsessed with a particular subject very easily (its happened many times to myself over my life ) and I will admit, this topic is CONSUMING me. It is hard to explain, but I would imagine some of you had the experience to have at some point seen or believed something that seemed very compelling to yourself only to have it dismissed with the wave of a hand of who ever it is you shared your thoughts with, its not a good feeling.

Back to my friend, R. I would describe R's initial responses to my fringe thoughts as similar to this boards. BUT, the difference is that he has known me for over 20 years. He KNOWS, that I worked in FINANCE for about 10 years, HE KNOWS that after that I helped turn around our failing family business to the point that I have not worked (for the need of money)in almost 2 years. So my point is, because he has known me personally and KNOWS that I am neither CRAZY OR STUPID he at some point gave me a benefit of the doubt and ACTUALLY LISTENED to my argument. IT WAS AMAZING for me, because once he actually LISTENED to my argument rather than just RECITE HIS OWN CURRENT BELIEFS to me as a rebuttal to my questions , he started going UH HUH, UH HUH, UH HUH (AGREEING WITH ME) when I would make logical arguments about STUFF he considered crazy thinking at best the day before. IT WAS AWESOME, because I felt I had finally broken through to him, this was maybe a week ago.

The reason is this. NO ONE here KNOWS me and I come outta nowhere with what is an insane idea, to any sane person at first. BECAUSE I LACK the proper amount of credibility or ACCEPTANCE within the group, I believe it is MUCH EASIER for this group or any group to not only IGNORE FACTS that are present in an argument, but to fall into a groupthink FRENZY of ATTACK even in the face of CREDIBLE EVIDENCE because the group has ALREADY made its decision.

So maybe someone will hopefully reread what has taken place here because I have learned something and hope that that can continue here. THIS IS the subject that I am interested IN. Maybe someone could team up with me as a THOUGHT EXPERIMENT and see IF they can help me prove this flat earth true, and then when we cannot I could finally rest knowing that I had tried, but that under scrutiny the evidence for FLAT EARTH proved to be to weak. That would be a great outcome to me, BUT I also want the outcome to be based on criteria that I can UNDERSTAND. Thanks for reading.

[daveflat]

Ibon, if you are ok with postings soley to attack someones charactor or intelligence on this board then obviously fine, like I said before it does not bother me, I just thought it was the forums policy to keep the site at a "higher standard". No problem at all. I like it here, cog gave me some good explanations for my questions and so did kaiser jeep and a few others who knowingly or not also help me refine my own ideas.
I am AMAZED that by reading my thread no one here can see that. soo I don't know at this point.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '@')daveflat

Mathematics and physics, at least our current understanding of them, does not describe the universe completely. But that is not the issue. Mathematics, astronomy, and physics do 100% describe and prove a somewhat round earth and its orbit around a star.

[dissident]

So every celestial object of any size above that of a rock has clearly a spherical shape in our solar system. This includes the Sun and the Moon. Following the drivel of the OP all of these are just some sort of crib toy...

[Cog]

If dave were to study Polaris aka the North star and its use for locating your latitude it would become clearer why the earth must be a sphere. On a flat earth you could see Polaris from anywhere on the planet. But when you go south of the equator, you can't see it. We have some Aussie members here, ask them if they have seen it.

Its much the same reason I can's see the Southern Cross from my latitude in north America. Although people in southern Florida can see it.

[daveflat]

Dissident and cog, regarding the stars -their is a flat earth model that DOES explain/attempt to explain the movement of the stars and the reason why you could not see them from the southern pole. I don't really ADDRESS that because I do NOT believe it CONVINCES Me that it could be true, I DID NOT SAY IT CANNOT be true, but I gotta do a lot of "accepting" of explanations so I just do not bother with it for now."

If you want search on youtube great, if not then fine, I do not understand why youtube videos seem to be such a great hurdle, some are excellent some are embarrassing and some ok I just dicern for myself, but I will leave it at that. I think what maybe I did not explain well enough is that I believe that legitimate rational questions have been raised in only a few experiments, and those are the only ones I Im interested in NOW . At some point the explanations you are asking me about WILL have to be ADDRESSED, but for now the flat earth explanations for many of those items of contention are not even strong enough to bother with.

Multiple people ALL OVER THE WORLD have done telescope and laser beam experiments that show NO curvature over long distances of water. People (on youtube) have successfully pointed and seen a LASER BEAM across 4 MILES of ocean and spotted the point of a laser when it was just 3 inches above of sea level, while the camara was set at 3 feet above sea level, so that the laser should have been blocked by 3 feet of earth curvature (I Believe if the math was correct should the laser should have been blocked up to 3 ft above sea level, instead you could see it 3 inches above sea level ). These are easily testable and falsifiable I would think. The one I am referring to by some young kid jeranism, is called Flat earth experiment-4 mile laser test results show proof of no curvature . Does one test raise questions for me,maybe maybe not, but so many people around the world have done the test and in fact it was done (which I mentioned before) in peer reviewed science in the bedford canal experiment.


Could all these people be doing something wrong? Sure. I really don't want to waste people time here.
I HONESTLY think the best way to go about it would be to have someone HELP me try to PROVE THAT FLAT EARTH IS TRUE, because once I FAIL to prove these things that raise questions in MY MIND with one of YOU guys, I think I would consider the case closed, and that I live on a ball like I had previously believed pretty much my entire life.

It just raises the question for me(laser test), why is that happening when it should not happen. AND it is testable ANYONE can do it. I DO NOT have answers to your VERY logical point about the roundness of almost ALL the other planets, maybe I will never get that far.

My buddies brother who is a pilot. It makes no sense what he says to me- so I made the statement about airplanes so that it could be disproven one way or another. Fairly easy and highly testable. I'm so tired from typing all day and getting beat up by you guys. Thanks for not kicking me out, I'm gonna call it quits for tonight and hopefully a few people will still check out what I have to say here. Thanks

[dolanbaker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'D')aveflat

Have you paid for the course of ten ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Gas

[daveflat]

Thanks for the example and proving one of my points again guys. I do NOT think gasman has responded to anything before on this thread, and then he shows up and his first post regarding ME is to make a mockery of ME. The funny thing is though if you watch the near beginning of the video when the guy (looking for an argument) walks in the door (of the professional arguer), HE (guy looking for argument) immediately GETS SHOUTED AT. Now if you read through the posts in this thread, I think most would agree I am the guy getting yelled AT as SOON AS THE DOOR OPENS, NO?

I pointed out in a previous post that it seemed like "group think" takes over at some point. There has now been multiple confirmations by many people (the group) that I AM A NUT, so now the "group" comes here to ONLY to have a good laugh, because it HAS already been decided.

Has anyone noticed, I have stuck to the TWO most far out threads ONLY to discuss my CRAZY?
I have not gone on a campaign at this site to spread my words, I wrote them (in the forum topic I thought was the most appropriate) and was hoping people who are interested in DISCUSSING the topic would have a look, see if my words are WORTH their own time, and then address my thoughts.

OH WELL then its TRUE I have a nefarious PLAN to come here and spend HOURS typing to convince people who I do NOT know something I am NOT SURE about myself, YES that does make sense to ME!!!!!!

[Newfie]

Dave,

The Flat Earth Society holds that Fogo, Newfoundland, Canada, Northern HemiSPHERE happens to be close to my family home. I have been been there, several times. I've taken my sailboat around it. I did not fall off.

So allow me to ask this, if the Earth is flat, where is the edge?