[ROCKMAN]

EU - Glad to hear it worked out for the wife. But your out of pocket costs!!! The first thorough exam by a US doctor would have cost more then your entire bill. I won't even guess what the same bill would have been in the US. Just a simple MRI runs $2,000 or so. Can a foreigner get the same rate in Poland? If so it would probably be cheaper for a US citizen even adding a couple of r/t plane tickets. Many here without insurance take such an approach.

I don't a problem with single payer systems per se. The serious cost problem comes from any payer (govt or ins. company) that fuels medical cost inflation by injecting huge amounts of revenue into the system with little regard to the competition dynamic. President Trump says he'll address that situation...at least so far with drug costs. I have doubts about such an effort. He might be able to tell the D's in Congress to f*ck off.

But they aren't nearly as powerful as the medical and insurance industries. LOL

[EnergyUnlimited]

Yes,
Foreigners can get the same deal as local Poles do and they are welcomed.
Plenty of clinics taking private patients as well.
Here you have price list of different surgical procedures (procedures described in Polish - you must translate).
http://klinikasalus.pl/index.php/cennik ... peracyjne/
It is an average private clinic, reasonably well equipped and staffed.
My wife was operated there.
Many if not most of operating doctors with PhD and long practice.
To get approximate dollar price divide given numbers by four.
Many cost as much as few X-rays in US and nearly all cheaper than MRI in US clinic.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'U')nless you address costs, TrumpCare will end up exactly where ObamaCare did.

[Cog]

Because people don't want to face the fact that insurance companies, big pharma, hospitals, and doctors are going to take a severe economic hit should price discovery be the law.

We have price discovery in nearly every commodity and service in our capitalist system. But not in health care. That has to change and right quick.

[Newfie]

You DO have price discovery, EU posted it.

If enough folks take their medical dollars elsewhere it WILL change.

Although I suspect you will first see legislation to outlaw overseas treatment.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'Y')ou DO have price discovery, EU posted it.

If enough folks take their medical dollars elsewhere it WILL change.

Although I suspect you will first see legislation to outlaw overseas treatment.

[Newfie]

Cog,

I believe many people can afford the plane ticket, when compared to cost of service inside the USA. What's holding it back is the mistaken idea that countries outside the USA can't provide adequate or equal care.

http://www.patientsbeyondborders.com/me ... tics-facts

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'B')ecause people don't want to face the fact that insurance companies, big pharma, hospitals, and doctors are going to take a severe economic hit should price discovery be the law.

We have price discovery in nearly every commodity and service in our capitalist system. But not in health care. That has to change and right quick.

[Cog]

I am skeptical as well. What would Trump's reward for crashing the stock price of every pharmaceutical company and health insurance company? It sure wouldn't be reelection even if it were in the long term benefit of everyone involved. Now maybe Trump doesn't care about reelection but there are 535 people in Washington DC who think about it day and night. We can't continue to have 7-9% yearly increases in health care costs. Already people are being priced out of the market.

It goes against my philosophy of small government, but we may have to go down the road of some type of government ran health care if we don't get a handle on the pricing. The thought depresses me though since I don't trust government to do anything well.

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I') am skeptical as well. What would Trump's reward for crashing the stock price of every pharmaceutical company and health insurance company? It sure wouldn't be reelection even if it were in the long term benefit of everyone involved. Now maybe Trump doesn't care about reelection but there are 535 people in Washington DC who think about it day and night. We can't continue to have 7-9% yearly increases in health care costs. Already people are being priced out of the market.

It goes against my philosophy of small government, but we may have to go down the road of some type of government ran health care if we don't get a handle on the pricing. The thought depresses me though since I don't trust government to do anything well.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', '
')What you are saying looks as if it could come with a high probability of undesirable unintended consequences. Imagine, for instance, some bacterial development that required us to kick antibiotic research up a few notches, but we couldn't meet the challenge because of the financial condition of pharmaceutical companies after a Trump industry shakeup? Imagine the wars within those companies for control, in the wake of the opportunity to seize power manifesting itself due to extreme volatility of stock prices? Those wars would be certain to come with obstruction of both vision and long term decision making. People within an organization act differently when they can't be certain a governing regime will retain power more than a short time. They don't necessarily change everything they do to match the new vision, wondering if they oughtn't to stay ready for a change of plans when the next CEO comes in.

[Kristen]

Mandatory euthanasia at 75 would solve our health care crisis. The baby boomers were lucky enough to live in the age of prosperity while the declining youth survive off of its rotting corpse. I haven't had health insurance in five years and at age 30, I've been lucky enough to remain healthy by preventative measures. If I did get struck down with some medical emergency I'd likely refuse care to be honest. I'd hate to be a freeloader on the system and inconvenience the fictional middle class.

[Newfie]

You should not think of yourself as a drag on the middle class, whatever that is. The are tons of folks who drag on society and make their own medical emergencies. Alcoholics, drug abusers, grossly obese, etc. for them I have little pity outside some mental health assistance. Folks who have some medical emergency they did not contribute to; hit by a DUI for instance, should recieve government assistance.

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', '
')What you are saying looks as if it could come with a high probability of undesirable unintended consequences. Imagine, for instance, some bacterial development that required us to kick antibiotic research up a few notches, but we couldn't meet the challenge because of the financial condition of pharmaceutical companies after a Trump industry shakeup? Imagine the wars within those companies for control, in the wake of the opportunity to seize power manifesting itself due to extreme volatility of stock prices? Those wars would be certain to come with obstruction of both vision and long term decision making. People within an organization act differently when they can't be certain a governing regime will retain power more than a short time. They don't necessarily change everything they do to match the new vision, wondering if they oughtn't to stay ready for a change of plans when the next CEO comes in.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'M')andatory euthanasia at 75 would solve our health care crisis. The baby boomers were lucky enough to live in the age of prosperity while the declining youth survive off of its rotting corpse. I haven't had health insurance in five years and at age 30, I've been lucky enough to remain healthy by preventative measures. If I did get struck down with some medical emergency I'd likely refuse care to be honest. I'd hate to be a freeloader on the system and inconvenience the fictional middle class.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')
I hate to break it to you, but chances are you're just not prepared for what’s coming. Not even close. Don't take it personally. I'm simply playing the odds. After spending more than a decade warning people all over the world about the futility of pursuing infinite exponential economic growth on a finite planet, I can tell you this: very few are even aware of the nature of our predicament. An even smaller subset is either physically or financially ready for the sort of future barreling down on us. Even fewer are mentally prepared for it. And make no mistake: it's the mental and emotional preparation that matters the most. If you can't cope with adversity and uncertainty, you're going to be toast in the coming years. Those of us intending to persevere need to start by looking unflinchingly at the data, and then allowing

[Cog]

Buy my book please.

[SeaGypsy]

Would Adam please stop being a dickwad, posting quote based new topics with no personal input, no research into relevant history on the forums & ending in complete sentences? Is that too much to f'ing ask?

[KaiserJeep]

Ahem, with regard to the post topic .... Chris Martenson has been a longtime shill for precious metals, Gold and Silver in particular. He is also a Doomer, and has been predicting Doom as imminent for 20+ years. During that time, through the three financial bubbles he talks about, his followers have lost an enormous amaount of purchasing power by parking their cash in metals.

Just saying .... the idea with metals is to buy low and sell high, just as with stocks and commodities. Most amatuers get this backwards in the end, and - as in the stocks/commodities markets - the pros skin them of their money. If you think you are better than the pros, you are probably wrong.