[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('baha', 'T')here are countless different types of Lithium batteries. Different chemistries and materials. That's why there are two types of Tesla batteries. One is for daily cycles and the other is for occasional backup. The makeup of these batteries is different.

The daily cycle battery is designed to cycle...if you leave it fully charged for a long period it will be unhappy. It is meant to be used.

The backup battery is designed to wait. If you cycle it every day it will degrade.

So you need to know what you plan to do with it.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('baha', 'D')on't have a number, I'm sure it's significant...But what you are talking about is more jobs. http://fortune.com/2016/03/29/lithium-t ... ne-nevada/

There will be new infrastructure built and jobs created and who knows what the $ tradeoff will be...but it leads in a sustainable direction. Just like Aluminum, Lithium will be cheaper to recycle than mine. Unlike FFs it will still be in there after the battery is dead.

[KaiserJeep]

I will mention that I invested $7500 in the Cape Wind offshore wind farm about a decade ago. Although Obama called it "shovel ready" in 2007 during his first campaign, I have slowly realized that I am never going to see any return on that money.

I have also related the cost of PV electricity here in sunny California in a message in this thread dated May 21, 2016. My grid-attached solar roof produces energy at a cost of $0.31/kWh. In an off-grid situation, the cost with Powerwall batteries would be $0.59/kWh, because I would need more panels plus batteries. I should note that I am a retired Electrical Engineer and I have been monitoring my PV roof for what will be 7 years in July of this year. The cost of Chinese-made PV panels has decreased by about 35% during that same period, but labor costs have increased slightly, today that same solar roof would be implemented at an electricity cost of about $0.28/kWh.

You appear to be confusing the ongoing costs of capital expenditures with fuel costs for power generation. Solar PV has zero fuel costs but very high capital expenditures and these are even higher with battery storage. My 2.8 kVA rooftop solar is both undersized for off-grid usage and lacks battery storage. I am in a near-ideal location for solar power in sunny California and in a near-ideal regulatory environment, with both Federal tax rebates and State of California tax rebates under the CSI (California Solar Initiative), and state-mandated "net metering", which forces the power company to purchase back my piddly little 2.8kW of power at retail electricity rates.

I would not be willing to teach you the mathematics of Capex in this forum, it is a long and involved discussion, and I would recommend an Economics textbook instead. I will summarize what is happening when I say that the Feds and the State of California are overcharging everybody around me for their electricity and rewarding those of us with Solar PV by in effect giving us OPM (other people's money). That $0.28/kWh is expensive electricity for a US state, but the CARB (California Air Resources Board) has increased the cost of electricity in this state with decades of tinkering. The US average cost for grid electricity is about 1/3rd lower than in California, and the wholesale electrical cost is about $0.12/kWh for the "green" electricity that we buy from Texas. (Note that these are burdened costs, not simple cost-of-fuel figures.)

Bottom line is that because of all the government meddling with grid electricity, I have saved about $2200 on my electrical bill in six and a half years. In a state without solar incentives I would be paying a lot less for power, consequently there would also be fewer reasons to add PV panels to my roof.

[diemos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', ' ')I will summarize what is happening when I say that the Feds and the State of California are overcharging everybody around me for their electricity and rewarding those of us with Solar PV by in effect giving us OPM (other people's money).

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('diemos', '-')snip-

The grid operators have been putting up with this because it put off the day when they would have to site and build new power lines. An expensive regulatory nightmare.

[KaiserJeep]

In fact, the power grid high tension high voltage transmission lines are designed for longevity and low maintenance expenses. The problem is with the "last mile" power transmission which often involves wooden poles, overloaded transformers, and crappy contractor-installed, barely compliant building wiring, all poorly protected from lightning strikes.

If I was a power company, I'd be all in favor of grid-attached distributed solar, which would make my life less annoying. However those off-grid residences would be worrisome, if your business was generating power (or buying it wholesale) and selling it retail.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('diemos', '-')snip-

The grid operators have been putting up with this because it put off the day when they would have to site and build new power lines. An expensive regulatory nightmare.

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('baha', 'A')nd as far as your neighbors paying for your power, that's as it should be...we are all paying for the effects of burning FFs too.