[sjn]

I've been reading a few papers and on-line information on International Development and absolute poverty reduction, it's got me thinking about how this fits in with what we've been discussing in the ETP threads, and how it might provide a clue as to what's actually happening and why absolute poverty is in long-term absolute decline while the rapid rate of urbanisation continues unabated.

Given absolute poverty is defined by the World Bank as "people living below the poverty line of $1.9 per day", there's an implicit requirement that people be in the International System to be not in poverty. Personally, I see a disconnect between the given definition and my preconception of what poverty actually is. To my mind, impoverishment has more to do with loss a connection with the natural world and traditional culture than it does with an arbitrary monetary remuneration.

Wikipedia gives these definitions of general poverty

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')nited Nations: Fundamentally, poverty is the inability of having choices and opportunities, a violation of human dignity. It means lack of basic capacity to participate effectively in society. It means not having enough to feed and clothe a family, not having a school or clinic to go to, not having the land on which to grow one’s food or a job to earn one’s living, not having access to credit. It means insecurity, powerlessness and exclusion of individuals, households and communities. It means susceptibility to violence, and it often implies living in marginal or fragile environments, without access to clean water or sanitation.

World Bank: Poverty is pronounced deprivation in well-being, and comprises many dimensions. It includes low incomes and the inability to acquire the basic goods and services necessary for survival with dignity. Poverty also encompasses low levels of health and education, poor access to clean water and sanitation, inadequate physical security, lack of voice, and insufficient capacity and opportunity to better one’s life.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', '
')Am I alone seeing things this way?

[sjn]

As I see it, Absolute Poverty is a technical definition, that is, as I defined it in the second paragraph: "people living below the poverty line of $1.9 per day". Part of my argument is that is it a completely artificial and misleading statistic which is dependent on an arbitrary unit of currency which is subject to a long term structural shift though both urbanisation and commodification, and which only makes sense in a context which implicitly excludes self-sufficient agrarian or hunter-gather type communities*. It provides a narrative allowing vested interests to move into new markets on the pretext of alleviating poverty. This has been ongoing for many years and is supported by many well meaning individuals and organisations, but it is the true purpose of the "Progressive" International Developmental Aid programme.

I think the reason there's much disagreement and "politics" surrounding Relative Poverty and a need for the term, is because $1.9 per day is simply not sufficient to survive in the developed world, of course most "wealthy" countries do have a social safety net that provides some welfare to prevent large segments of their societies from actually living in destitution. That ends up being very political. The term poverty itself, apart from the Absolute/Relative designations, is generally defined as I quoted from wikipedia. My opinion is they are entirely unhelpful and even dangerous definitions which largely stem from our colonial history. The least impoverished are those that live within ecosystems which provide all their needs, such as the environment in which we evolved. We need to be connected with the natural world or we will all die in poverty.

The role of ecological theory and practice in
poverty alleviation and environmental
conservation

* I fully recognise very few now remain, but I think "the system" really wants to keep things that way...

[Revi]

Rural places produce things. Here in Maine we produce wood and make it into things like paper, pellets for heating and building materials. Right now there is no market for any of it. People aren't using as much paper, there's a glut of energy right now so pellets are not as popular and there's not much building going on. We are in trouble around here.

A friend who works in the wood industry says he has never seen it so bad.
Another guy who used to run 3 wood trucks has only one one the road right now. And they say it will get worse!

It seems like the best thing to do is just cut firewood. People still need that.
We make maple syrup, and it seems to sell. I think us little guys will just have to hunker down and eat some of our product. Cut our own firewood, eat pancakes with maple syrup and use less and less fossil fuel.

[sjn]

Thanks Revi. I think it's vital rural communities are viable, once the tide turns urban environments are going to be fully exposed. Allowing, or having policies in place undermining rural and traditional lifestyles remove resiliency.

I've always felt it was an issue of ethics that trade has to be something that's built on top of local, or at least regional sustainable self-sufficiency, otherwise there is an implicit subjugation and loss of volition.

[Ibon]

Agrarian knowledge has receded to just a few pockets where folks are still active in small scale agriculture. This knowledge is the "seed bank" for a future when agrarian life will experience a renaissance. This will happen so much more quickly than folks predict. It is generational and will be driven by the economics of decline. The pioneer work that folks do today will bear fruit.

My father who has an amish background reminded me of something with one of his favorite sayings..... "plant patience in the garden of thy soul, the roots are bitter but the fruits are sweet".

This saying resonates with where we are now. The roots are bitter at the moment with an economic system that has sucked the marrow out of agrarian life but we are not far from the turning point when a renaissance will bear sweet fruit.

Be ahead of the curve if you can. You have to salute folks like Careinke and anyone who is trying to be those pioneers of a vanguard which has a bright future.

[Ibon]

I have recently shared a few posts about how the mainstream media and politics is so corrupt that by engaging in it you corrupt yourself. A positive example of living a viable alternative life is to shut off the stream of shit coming out of our politics and media and align yourself with folks whose culture is local and more agrarian and self sufficient. ..... It is possible for anyone to do that right now in the midst of all the mediocrity and filth that represents our current political and economic system. The stronger your local alliances the more this immunizes you from the shit coming through media sources. When you live an isolated life with little culture and you dont know your neighbors and you are not integrated in any local communty then this allows the corrupt media to define more your culture. You do not have to let it be this way.

One of the aspects of this renaissance is actually a deeper form of rejection of the status quo. My father was Amish. The Anabaptists (Menonites, Amish, Church of the Brethern) all have their roots in the European founders of this agrarian based religion who left Europe for the New World because they rejected the status quo of what they perceived as a European society corrupted by economic movements toward modernization and industrialization. Sound familiar?

There is a really valid comparison for something similar to occur today. It does not have to have a rigid religious agrarian orthodoxy as a tribal foundation to bind people together as was the case with the Amish. But being united against a society perceived as corrupt is a powerful force that binds a tribe.

There is enough dysfunction in the world today, enough corruption in our politics and economics, enough destruction of our natural world, to give rise to an alternative agrarian culture that worships and revers our natural world.

So why don't we see that happening more quickly? The main reason is that most people at most only play lip service to what it would mean to live by the work ethics that are entailed in a more agrarian based lifestyle. We are still happy in the mediocrity of consumption culture. Let's be honest.

The catalyst missing is a further decline in our global economic system, a further decline in the economics and culture of consumption.

The narrative of this new renaissance has all the ingredients. There are emerging generations increasingly disenfranchised. It just needs a spark.

[Revi]

There must be a way to live in the new impoverished rural places. Perhaps some kind of a community can do it. The Amish are moving into Maine in about 5 places and are doing well. They pay cash, sell their commodities mostly retail and are able to make it because they don't have any payments for fuel and vehicles. Why can't we learn something from people like that?

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'T')here must be a way to live in the new impoverished rural places. Perhaps some kind of a community can do it. The Amish are moving into Maine in about 5 places and are doing well. They pay cash, sell their commodities mostly retail and are able to make it because they don't have any payments for fuel and vehicles. Why can't we learn something from people like that?

[sjn]

I'm doing the latter, Ibon. My health has been poor most my life, I'd be (pleasantly) surprised to make it through the bottleneck. I'm not expecting to, not that it prevents me from trying to encourage others.

As for where it's going to come from, I suspect if it's anywhere at all here in Europe it will be from the "Neo"-Paganism/Heathenry communities.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', 'I')'m doing the latter, Ibon. My health has been poor most my life, I'd be (pleasantly) surprised to make it through the bottleneck. I'm not expecting to, not that it prevents me from trying to encourage others.

As for where it's going to come from, I suspect if it's anywhere at all here in Europe it will be from the "Neo"-Paganism/Heathenry communities.

[sjn]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', 'I')'m doing the latter, Ibon. My health has been poor most my life, I'd be (pleasantly) surprised to make it through the bottleneck. I'm not expecting to, not that it prevents me from trying to encourage others.

As for where it's going to come from, I suspect if it's anywhere at all here in Europe it will be from the "Neo"-Paganism/Heathenry communities.

[sjn]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', 'I')'m doing the latter, Ibon. My health has been poor most my life, I'd be (pleasantly) surprised to make it through the bottleneck. I'm not expecting to, not that it prevents me from trying to encourage others.

As for where it's going to come from, I suspect if it's anywhere at all here in Europe it will be from the "Neo"-Paganism/Heathenry communities.

[Revi]

I think we'll see these little projects we are working on like gardens will become more and more like sustenance and less and less like hobbies. I do a number of agricultural pursuits every year. Right now I'm going to pack up our garden on the island, and start to get ready for the maple syrup season here. I've dug potatoes and will plant some "green manure" on the garden. It's not a big money maker, but it keeps us in potatoes. This year I planted some sweet potatoes as well, and they are tasty! They have a long growing season for here, but we got some! We should have enough wood for the winter now, so that's an activity that helps out the household budget as well. Cutting and splitting takes time, but it's exercise and every stick of wood is equivalent to almost a half a gallon of heating oil, so it's a buck or so!

[Tanada]

I find it sad and almost amusing that the idea people in rural areas live closer to a natural low consumerism lifestyle is the same thing as being impoverished.

I grew up working the small farm and hiking around the woods when I wasn't doing chores. I wouldn't trade those memories for all the smart phone games you could have given 8 year old me, though at the time I was jealous of the 'video games' some of my contemporaries were provided by their parents when I was a teen. I think every teen only sees what their contemporaries receive and ignore what they themselves receive instead, it is simple human nature.

The problem urbanites have is with their limited access to nature they need distractions like electronic games to occupy their brains or they would go even crazier than they already are. They then look at people living closer to nature and see them as 'deprived' because those people don't need the electronics to fill their mental space, nature takes care of that for them.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')The problem urbanites have is with their limited access to nature they need distractions like electronic games to occupy their brains or they would go even crazier than they already are. They then look at people living closer to nature and see them as 'deprived' because those people don't need the electronics to fill their mental space, nature takes care of that for them.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')The problem urbanites have is with their limited access to nature they need distractions like electronic games to occupy their brains or they would go even crazier than they already are. They then look at people living closer to nature and see them as 'deprived' because those people don't need the electronics to fill their mental space, nature takes care of that for them.