[C8]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'W')hat went wrong?

I have been thinking and have thought about the state of the world. In fact like any thoughtful human I believe has and is doing. Yet not just the present but the past. True we have achieved much technologically. However, socially where have we been and where are we now. We bought into a system of hierarchical power and decision making and our leaders for the most part throughout history have led us poorly. We have created very unequal , unjust and mostly unsustainable societies ecologically speaking. We have created in the modern age a voracious beast of an economy which devours all and spews out waste. We have spread an ethos of greed and competition around the world with it’s concomitant vices of inequality and injustice not to mention worse vices such as drugs and arms. We remain in many countries backwards in our tolerance of each other and our differences. Certainly at this time, some regions are barely livable such as the Middle East, Africa and Central and South America. We remain divided in a multitude of ways, by religion, by race, by material status, by gender etc. Is not progress finally realizing that we are all human beings and we have so much more in common then we have as differences. So to not continue too long , I pose that question to the intelligent surfers and members of this site. Looking forward to read the responses.

[onlooker]

First, the most important thing is to define the "we". We as in the one fifth of the population who live in rich countries. Yes, we are better off than most humans have ever been. But the other four fifths not so much in fact hardly at all. All those improvements on your list are NOT for the most part enjoyed by these four fifths of the world population. As for comparing time periods well nothing could be more stark. In the past we had many social maladies and deprivations. Now, we have a world blindly and insatiably acting without any regard to future generations. A world of such inequality and injustice that it boggles the mind. When less than 100 people can control more wealth than most of the worlds population. When the vast masses of poor have the misfortune of knowing how well some live in other places but cannot ever hope to emulate them. So guess what I am not overjoyed to know all this and to be one of the "lucky" ones. That is difference between you and me. Some can sit and drink their nice drink and not care about what the future holds for future generations considering how we are degrading, destroying and depleting the Earth and its life support systems. My mental health is just fine, because I face up to this truth and see it fully and with empathy and compassion.

[SeaGypsy]

Wow, time warp, Onlooker has been here more than 2 years, sheesh.... Some really great thoughts on here. I side with Pops, scapegoating is a trait which leads to nastiness- witch burnings, lynchings, divorces & wars- not happiness or content. As many long termers here, I find the planet is still big enough, there are still santuaries, & eventually sanity demands to them we flee. Those with nowhere to run get stuck into alternative means of altering reality. It is our duty to ourselves to find peace. If individuals don't do it, how can the collective? If we forgo the opportunity to find it, who is to blame when me meet our end without it? "Be the change you want to see in the world".

[onlooker]

Thanks Sea, your thoughtful comments are always appreciated. Not so much scapegoating as simply acknowledging the great inequalities and injustices in the world. I guess that is my way of being the change I want to see. By now, some here know I am pretty passionate about social justice and such. I mean I started a thread called "Capitalism is Evil" haha. I just have a hard time stomaching when anyone can casually say we currently live in a virtual Utopia. Considering how others live and how bleak the future is shaping up to be and knowing that these few generations around this time were and are instrumental in shaping that bleak future. At least lets all acknowledge this bitter sweet irony.

[SeaGypsy]

Always search for paradox, it often occurs in a profound manner with 'passionately held views'. In this instance, both the sadness & horror of gross devastation of the planet, the vivid violations then the fact that more people now than ever have the resources to invent their own realities- through good old sweat & discipline. I know this suggestion horrifies the previously middle class, but globally it is true.

[C8]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'F')irst, the most important thing is to define the "we". We as in the one fifth of the population who live in rich countries. Yes, we are better off than most humans have ever been. But the other four fifths not so much in fact hardly at all. All those improvements on your list are NOT for the most part enjoyed by these four fifths of the world population.

[onlooker]

C8, I did not say that poor people needed tons of money to be happy. Your point that people in the past lived brutish lives is true. But by the same token , as you yourself admit, they and others can find joy in simple things and a simple non materialistic life. But I stand by the fact that for the most part in a basic sense these people still do live relatively brutish lives. They have little or no access to any sort of decent health care. Their economic opportunities such as they are, are very limited. One billion people do not get enough to eat. 2 more billions live marginally better than those one billion. Education is not a doorway for much improvement. I am not either romanticizing the past, rather I am keenly looking at the present and trying to compare. If I missed some of the worse aspects of the past for humans your missing some of the worse in the present. Slavery may not formerly continue yet in a real sense it does. What else can you call it for so many people who do not have any chance to attain a better quality of life. No money is not everything and certainly not the path to happiness. But realistically in the world we created practically all is bought and sold. So, these four fifths I speak of live quietly their lives in silent destitution even while knowing that some others enjoy lavish pleasures and privileges. On vacations which i have taken I saw it first hand, they service us tourists quietly observing how we satiate our whims and desires and they can only watch us but not participate. I also speak of the violence of cultural assimilation whereby these old cultures from around the world have been forced to submit to the underlying paradigm of consumerism and their forced subservience in this dominant culture. Of colonialism and mass murders and genocide to force compliance. Of direct brutal slavery. No this world has been anything but ideal or a paradise but lets not kid ourselves that somehow at present we have really made it better. In fact as again you aptly stated money is not happiness. Thus in rich countries people wander aimlessly trying to extract pleasure from the world yet forlorn in a profound way and confused not realizing how to be at peace or happy. No, as you look at my icon you see a solitary figure looking out at a vast ocean and sunrise. It is about peace, which is my path to try and attain some sort of satisfaction or happiness.

[SeaGypsy]

Depending what you call 'decent health care'- being now most places in the third world have cheap generic antibiotics, clavinate hospital grade included- a huge lifesaver at a few cents each. Soap likwise. On the flip side, water quality & availability is a problem for much of the world. I have to agree with C8, people who experienced before & after low end modernisation are nostalgic for some things perhaps, but the vast majority are looking forward. Cheap solar lighting is changing lives in remote settings around the world. Bottled gas, rocket stoves, water filters, 125cc motorcycles, cargo routes, these are the basic technological advances affecting lives of the poorest 2/3 of humanity.

[Ibon]

Media outlets are profit driven and therefore biased. Politicians are puppets to lobbyists.
To engage in current events and politics is a part of civic duty. But when the media and politics have become rotten to the core then this does raise the question about the merits of engagement. Which furthermore begs the question about any form of activism. The vast majority of folks are passive in their engagement of politics and news, basically ingesting what is fed with very little discrimination of the deeper motives. Party affiliation is almost like Pavlov's dog of conditioning.

There is no intelligence with noble intentions behind the scenes. The deeper motives are corrupt. It really does raise the question about why one should engage in a process so corrupt.

I once met a hermit living in a trailer in a remote slot canyon somewhere in Arizona. We were backpacking and came across his site. He had food delivered by a neighbor twice a month. Sage, cottonwood trees, wind, a simple desert ecology defined his existence. His daily news was bird song, coyotes yelping around his chicken coup, the dew in the morning, the wind at night that shook his aluminum home.

Every one of us has a choice of what we define as news and what we choose to engage in.

You have to ask yourself if news, politics and social media sites are nourishing your soul in this brief moment of your existence. What you engage in is a choice. It just seems to me that if the system is so corrupt then choosing to engage in it politically and ingesting the news is on some level corrupting yourself as well.

I am sick of news and politics and analysis. I feel myself drawn more and more to bird song and wind as my source of news. This hermit I met years ago seems to have figured something out.

[Cog]

He figured out how to be poor and to mooch off others.

[onlooker]

Ibon reading your above comment, especially this part resonated with me "You have to ask yourself if news, politics and social media sites are nourishing your soul in this brief moment of your existence. What you engage in is a choice. It just seems to me that if the system is so corrupt then choosing to engage in it politically and ingesting the news is on some level corrupting yourself as well." It does seem now such a waste of time all the spectrum of politics and news and what some consider noteworthy. Also, the constant bickering on the left and right side of the spectrum. As we speculate here on what is happening and what might happen, I engage here out of curiosity and hearing thoughts like yours. Everyone seems to have their unique perspective and I find it fascinating to uncover it. On the other hand, it all does seem now so mundane and this dreariness now mixes with the foreboding nature of what is to come. I am not set in my routine, some days I wish to totally disengage,others to find out the headlines and what is happening. I hope you do not totally leave us, as your input is always insightful and interesting. Oh and Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones.

[C8]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'C')8, I did not say that poor people needed tons of money to be happy. Your point that people in the past lived brutish lives is true. But by the same token , as you yourself admit, they and others can find joy in simple things and a simple non materialistic life. But I stand by the fact that for the most part in a basic sense these people still do live relatively brutish lives. They have little or no access to any sort of decent health care. Their economic opportunities such as they are, are very limited. One billion people do not get enough to eat. 2 more billions live marginally better than those one billion. Education is not a doorway for much improvement. I am not either romanticizing the past, rather I am keenly looking at the present and trying to compare. If I missed some of the worse aspects of the past for humans your missing some of the worse in the present. Slavery may not formerly continue yet in a real sense it does. What else can you call it for so many people who do not have any chance to attain a better quality of life. No money is not everything and certainly not the path to happiness. But realistically in the world we created practically all is bought and sold. So, these four fifths I speak of live quietly their lives in silent destitution even while knowing that some others enjoy lavish pleasures and privileges. On vacations which i have taken I saw it first hand, they service us tourists quietly observing how we satiate our whims and desires and they can only watch us but not participate. I also speak of the violence of cultural assimilation whereby these old cultures from around the world have been forced to submit to the underlying paradigm of consumerism and their forced subservience in this dominant culture. Of colonialism and mass murders and genocide to force compliance. Of direct brutal slavery. No this world has been anything but ideal or a paradise but lets not kid ourselves that somehow at present we have really made it better. In fact as again you aptly stated money is not happiness. Thus in rich countries people wander aimlessly trying to extract pleasure from the world yet forlorn in a profound way and confused not realizing how to be at peace or happy. No, as you look at my icon you see a solitary figure looking out at a vast ocean and sunrise. It is about peace, which is my path to try and attain some sort of satisfaction or happiness.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', ' ') I hope you do not totally leave us, as your input is always insightful and interesting. Oh and Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones.

[Cog]

Perhaps you are suffering from TARD. Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'P')erhaps you are suffering from TARD. Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder.

[Cog]

You will find out at the same time as the rest of us.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')ou will find out at the same time as the rest of us.

[Cog]

Thanks for that belly laugh Ibon.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')hanks for that belly laugh Ibon.