[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '.')..denigrating and villifying and joking about rural white americans and christians in the hinterland.

[ROCKMAN]

Revi - "I gave up being tough enough to hold off the zombie hordes long ago." LOL. The trick is to have strong ties to a rural clan that would protect our butts when things got bad. By shear coincidence by daughter is located in such a fairly isolated rural area. Only two roads in and enough deer hunting friends to protect the families from a hord...zombie of otherwise. LOL.

She's also in the process of learning how to go solar.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '.')..denigrating and villifying and joking about rural white americans and christians in the hinterland.

[Pops]

I appreciate your optimism Ibon but nothing you say indicates the Rs legislative agenda will change simply because they have power.

Whatever list published by a campaign hack has too little credence to waste the electricity to lite up a monitor with.

The Ra agenda is the same as it ever was, except for that bit about letting Russia invade whomever it pleases. Just a different bunch of promises to enable the same Randian goal. Now it is tax and regulation cuts for the wealth with a side of protectionism and xenophobia rather than tax and regulation cuts for the wealthy with a side of praise the Lord and pass the ammo.

All the same in the end.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') appreciate your optimism Ibon but nothing you say indicates the Rs legislative agenda will change simply because they have power.

Whatever list published by a campaign hack has too little credence to waste the electricity to lite up a monitor with.

The Ra agenda is the same as it ever was, except for that bit about letting Russia invade whomever it pleases. Just a different bunch of promises to enable the same Randian goal. Now it is tax and regulation cuts for the wealth with a side of protectionism and xenophobia rather than tax and regulation cuts for the wealthy with a side of praise the Lord and pass the ammo.

All the same in the end.

[Pops]

You may be right Ibon

Trump is the Rs shark-jump, or at least I hope this is the worst they can do.

My hope is not that they will turn a new leaf, trump himself and the R donorship are completely aligned in the realm of taxes and regulation— LOL, trump is one of them—and since his plans are even more tilted to the rich it is obvious the supporters simply don't care as long as you have the correct platitudes and attitude..


The Rs will almost certainly overreach. really that is my only consolation, and in fact my best case for the way forward. They will send us the way of Kansas and when enough publics schools crumble to support charters and enough potholes merge to form washboard and enough public agencies hang out the closed sign, then, maybe the rural folks might wake up to the facts.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', ' ')They will send us the way of Kansas and when enough publics schools crumble to support charters and enough potholes merge to form washboard and enough public agencies hang out the closed sign, then, maybe the rural folks might wake up to the facts.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '[')i]When Trump says "I love the uneducated" his "uneducated" followers are not insulted but truly feel loved.

[Tanada]

More language distortion by the knee jerk left. Saying you want to control the rate of immigration and know who is coming into the country is not racist, it is simple common sense. Canada has stricter immigration laws than the USA for crying out loud! You guys need to get a grip on reality.

It is also the case that if you are a blue collar worker of any color and the government allows an illegal immigrant to be hired by your boss for sub minimum wage and refuses to enforce the law you are left with nowhere to turn. Rule of law protects the poor from the actions of the wealthy, why is that so hard for you to understand?

No culture anywhere has a majority of artists and philosophers, someone has to do the plumbing and electrical work, collect the trash, pave and maintain the roads and bridges. By denigrating all the blue collar workers you are ignoring the facts on the ground, they have to be the majority of the population or society crumbles. Calling them names because they have a different perspective on how the world works is not helpful and prevents you from understanding where they are coming from and why they are voting the way they are.

The key to understanding is the same as the key to debating. If you can not express the other sides viewpoint in the way they would express it you do not actually understand it at all.

[Newfie]

Screw the politics. There is virtually nothing either side can do to effect the world trajectory. Theater.

Where it is at is taking care of yourself and loved ones.

I liked the Bananna Republic discussion. Forget the government as a force of good or evil. It is the weather or the sea, a big mindless force.

What can we effect? Put our efforts there. Be good people. Ignore the sock puppets in office. Learn to fly under their radar.

Some good people will get hurt. That is dreadful. It always happens in nature. Politics is just human nature.

[Newfie]

Tanda,
Interesting perspective. I wonder where I fit in? Dad was a bayman, then tried being a handyman, an on job injury put an end to that. No health insurance y know. Then he became the janitor at my high school. That's real cool for a teenager.

I did my service, got a maintenance job, got a degree (39), got a PE (50). Lived in cc Philadelphia married to a psychoanalyst. Neighborhood was so D they had to loan one to the Rs to represent them at my voting spot. True!

Maybe that's why I don't care to align with or support either side. Either I'm terminally confused or can see both sides of the coin too much.

I get the feeling others here have similar varied backgrounds which leads to this rich exchange.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'M')ore language distortion by the knee jerk left. Saying you want to control the rate of immigration and know who is coming into the country is not racist, it is simple common sense. Canada has stricter immigration laws than the USA for crying out loud! You guys need to get a grip on reality.

[Tanada]

More BS distortion Pops, I thought you were better than that.

The Hispanic members of my extended family voted for Trump, and Clinton, and Gary Johnson, because they never bought into the Trump is a Racist crap. Sanctuary cities and open door policies are a problem, not a solution. Until you wrap your head around that you do not understand Joe6P at all.

[Revi]

We are the outsiders again. With Obama in there, we thought that somehow our policies were being advanced, between bouts of drone bombing and backroom deals. Some of us got health insurance, some of us felt that our climate change worries were being listened to. Now we are on the outside again. A place we are used to, since we lived through GW Bush's time. It's a lot like a third world country. The different regimes come and go. Our particular faction now has to fade back into the shadows. There are a lot more of us now. We are still here. Now we are the outsiders...

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'W')e are the outsiders again. With Obama in there, we thought that somehow our policies were being advanced, between bouts of drone bombing and backroom deals. Some of us got health insurance, some of us felt that our climate change worries were being listened to. Now we are on the outside again. A place we are used to, since we lived through GW Bush's time. It's a lot like a third world country. The different regimes come and go. Our particular faction now has to fade back into the shadows. There are a lot more of us now. We are still here. Now we are the outsiders...

[Pops]

you can't on the one hand blame, let's see, "the knee jerk left", for lax immigration laws when clearly the Rs are just as much to blame.

I mean you can, doesn't accomplish anything but I guess it promotes the party.

You all have these little bumper stickers that mean a lot to you but I can't keep up with, "sanctuary city" "open door"

We don''t have "open borders", the us has an annual limit of 650k immigrants, if it should be less why not make the case and lower it? if it should have more why not argue that?

Build a wal? really? lol

[yellowcanoe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'M')ore language distortion by the knee jerk left. Saying you want to control the rate of immigration and know who is coming into the country is not racist, it is simple common sense. Canada has stricter immigration laws than the USA for crying out loud! You guys need to get a grip on reality.

[Paulo1]

Tanada is right when she referenced Canada's immigration policiy. It is hard to get in and yet we take in a far higher percentage of refugees.

And when our last right wing Govt ramped up foreign worker permits for their corporation buddy boys our citizens protested and they scaled it back in just a few months. Mind you, we still have a 30+ percent unionization rate. US around or less than 10%. It helps. Your undocumented problems are solely a result of pandering to Tyson and ilk. If undocumented illegals were really a problem for the powers who politicians answer to they would fine the companies....But they don't, hmmmmwonder why?

You can boycott the products, beat up the politicians, or burn the plants down. Judging by the different stock(s) rallies yesterday, the election of Trump won't help too many regular folks.
http://wolfstreet.com/2016/11/09/this-i ... ump-crash/

But, I think this quote says a great deal. (And I am very proud to be rural).

"As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. sic[buffoon]"

~ H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

[ROCKMAN]

Revi - Not a complete list but let's look at how matters went when y'all were on the "inside" (Obama time) and when on the "outside" (Bush time): higher global CO2 levels while on the "inside", higher US GHG emissions while on the "inside" then the "outside", higher oil/NG production and consumption while on the " iinside", 300%+ more US coal exports (most of it from govt leases) while on the "inside" then when on the "outside", more US coal produced during the 8 years on the " inside" then during the prervious 8 years on the "outside" (BTW according to the Sierra Club 40% of all US coal production is currently coming from the federal leases administered by the current POTUS), lower % of potential work force employed, greatest oil spill in US history while y'all had the " "inside" track, greater income disparity on the "inside" then when on the "outside", more money spent on the US military during time on the "inside" then previously on the "outside", almost 2X as many citizens on food stamps when you were on the " iinside" as when on the "outside", etc, etc.

Perhaps I'm reading you wrong but it almost sounds like you might be bragging about the "improvements" made while on the "inside" with President Obama then when on the "outside" with President Bush.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'M')ore language distortion by the knee jerk left. Saying you want to control the rate of immigration and know who is coming into the country is not racist, it is simple common sense. .