[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')I observe an interesting difference between our European and North American guests. The Europeans keep the lights to a minimum in their cabins and it is often dark. The North Americans generally leave all the lights blazing. I have had to tell our European guests a number of times to please leave the lights on as much as they want since we have excess power with no one to offer this to being in such a remote location and it gets dumped anyway.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'T')here's no need for posters in this forum to make TPTB "stifle" profits. The latter will go down on their own because of limits to growth. It just so happens that limits to growth is the point of this forum.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'N')ot to go further off topic (huh?) but Ibon I like the tilapia idea.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'Y')our choice is to insulate yourself, not by fighting it, getting upset over it, feeling disdain for these sentiments only hold you firmly in relationship to it. Your relatioship to the the status quo essentially goes down to zero and they disappear. They do not even merit anger or disdain. Actually, not even compassion. Irrelevant in the deepest sense of the word.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'O')nce that physical infrastructure becomes undermined however neither you behind the Redwood curtain or myself up in some cloud forest will be insulated. You do still depend on the status quo almost as much as anyone else despite the sustainability of the local bio region and your off the grid trappings. I have no illusions about this.

[KaiserJeep]

Ibon, if the AGW fanatics are correct, Tropical biomes are doomed in the long run. Even if they are incorrect, the process happens naturally, we are 6 degrees C below the average temperature of a Climatic Optimum. The Tropics turn into a belt of dusty deserts, the Temperate zones become Tropical and sub-Tropical, and the even Antarctica becomes sub-Temperate and is covered in evergreen forest. The rising waters displace coastal residents, large rivers turn into brackish estuaries, the changes are dramatic compared to now.

That's not happening for another 200-2000 years, of course. Or in the most extreme AGW scenario, in the next 20-200 years. You don't have to care for yourself, only your kids and grandkids. This is not the first time this has happened, only the first time we human primates have understood what is about to happen.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'I')bon, if the AGW fanatics are correct, Tropical biomes are doomed in the long run.

[KaiserJeep]

Ennui2, time to get past the whole denialist thing. Even if you AGW fanboys are correct, the world is warming, and your obsession is only about the trivial rate that the warming is occurring, and placing blame is a completely futile exercise.

So what is your plan to survive, and have your descendants live? Because we are not stopping the warming, ever. That remains true whether the rate is entirely natural or forced by excess atmospheric carbon. You just can't get past that last one - stopping the FF burning has direct and dramatic fatal results, so we are gonna burn every bit of carbon fuel we can get our hands on.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 't')rivial rate

[Ibon]

The most adaptive position in my view to the most dire forecasts is to do absolutely nothing. You really want to frame your worldview like a rodent in a hole trying to outsmart chaos?

No thanks.

I do not worry at all about the adaptation of natural ecosystems to the disruptions of climate change. Humans and their artificial landscapes are far more vulnerable to the consequences as I have mentioned in the past.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'T')here's no need for posters in this forum to make TPTB "stifle" profits. The latter will go down on their own because of limits to growth.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'T')here's no need for posters in this forum to make TPTB "stifle" profits. The latter will go down on their own because of limits to growth. It just so happens that limits to growth is the point of this forum.

[Hawkcreek]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'T')he most adaptive position in my view to the most dire forecasts is to do absolutely nothing. You really want to frame your worldview like a rodent in a hole trying to outsmart chaos?

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'T')he most adaptive position in my view to the most dire forecasts is to do absolutely nothing. You really want to frame your worldview like a rodent in a hole trying to outsmart chaos?

[ennui2]

I see where this thread is going...

The evergreen debate of city vs. country during collapse.

There's no objective answer to that question. There are a set of pros and cons to both although generally speaking the majority of doomers think cities will be deathtraps and discount the different set of challenges that come from living in the boonies.

What people also seem to have trouble considering is massive waves of human migration, either with the cities outpouring into the countryside like locusts or pouring INTO the cities thinking there's strength in numbers.

It's an interesting thought experiment but nobody really knows how this will play out.

My opinion is that the pros of living within the support-structure of BAU far outweigh the cons, with the most obvious example being jobs and access to advanced medical care. This is why current trends favor urbanization and why the boonies are increasingly a no-man's land of dysfunctional rejects (meth addicts, inbred yokels, etc...).

This is why, by and large, those pushing the rural doomstead approach are either already in retirement or don't have very promising job-earning potential to forgo or they have such extreme ideological positions that they'd make the sacrifice anyway, doom or no doom.

[Hawkcreek]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')If mad max happens short term I prefer to orient myself like an artist living at the base of Mount Vesuvius in Pompei in AD79, deeply immersed in my art and nature, not focused on an eruption that I cannot control anyway.

[Hawkcreek]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', '
')My opinion is that the pros of living within the support-structure of BAU far outweigh the cons, with the most obvious example being jobs and access to advanced medical care. This is why current trends favor urbanization and why the boonies are increasingly a no-man's land of dysfunctional rejects (meth addicts, inbred yokels, etc...).