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How real is real

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: How real is real

Postby Tanada » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 11:48:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')anada, your biologic imperative is an excuse, it insults the humble, weary, kind and generous among us. Not everyone consumes for the sake of consuming, or breeds for the sake of filial growth.


As always Pete your choosing to ignore reality will not change anything except perhaps your own mental comfort level. Biology is what it is, not what you wish it to be no matter how hard you wish, or pray, or do magic spells.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: How real is real

Postby ennui2 » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 11:48:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')the NYT, FT, Taas, and Xinhua; those facts that they agree on, are likely to actually be true.


I just think this MSM-bashing is too divorced from actual instances of fact vs. fictionalized reporting.

Could someone give an example of the MSM, by virtue of wanting to "sell soap" reporting an untruth? And I'm talking about something that is directly relevant to doom, today.

If the MSM reports that an antarctic shelf breaks off, complete with pictures, isn't that pretty clear-cut?

We're in an era where almost everything is recorded digitally. That's why there's so much coverage of crimes captured on video. There's really little wiggle room for things to just be manufactured out of thin air. That's not to say the INTERPRETATION of the data can't vary, but there's less trees falling in the forest without making a sound.
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Re: How real is real

Postby Subjectivist » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 12:31:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')the NYT, FT, Taas, and Xinhua; those facts that they agree on, are likely to actually be true.


I just think this MSM-bashing is too divorced from actual instances of fact vs. fictionalized reporting.

Could someone give an example of the MSM, by virtue of wanting to "sell soap" reporting an untruth? And I'm talking about something that is directly relevant to doom, today.

If the MSM reports that an antarctic shelf breaks off, complete with pictures, isn't that pretty clear-cut?

We're in an era where almost everything is recorded digitally. That's why there's so much coverage of crimes captured on video. There's really little wiggle room for things to just be manufactured out of thin air. That's not to say the INTERPRETATION of the data can't vary, but there's less trees falling in the forest without making a sound.


When the MSM reports a story about Fukushima do they report the facts, or do they hype fear with every scary sounding word in their vocabulary to draw more audience and increase their ratings for ad revenue purposes?
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: How real is real

Postby ennui2 » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 13:31:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')When the MSM reports a story about Fukushima do they report the facts, or do they hype fear with every scary sounding word in their vocabulary to draw more audience and increase their ratings for ad revenue purposes?


Nope. That would be Mike Ruppert, prior to blowing his head off in a depressive funk, who said everyone on the West Coast would be dead within weeks/months.

http://www.vice.com/video/apocalypse-man-part-5
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Re: How real is real

Postby jedrider » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 14:15:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I') am making this post because I am highly intrigued by the inclinations of our various members here with regard to their sources of information about important subject matters. I think we can all here agree that over time under the strictures of Capitalism wealth has become ever more concentrated. Also, that Corruption is endemic and ubiquitous. So then the connection begs to be made, that the financial hegemonic interests have corrupted and bought off all major institutions and spheres of human concern. Certainly, we can say that Media has and is being bought off at least in the Western world. So my point, is when I see people relying on the mainstream media for information and then some who (rightfully) eschew utilizing it as an important source of information, I realize we have a dichotomy that is intriguing. So where do other members stand on what and whom we can believe in, in these turbulent changing times. Personally, I feel that they're is little that comes from official sources that can be trusted.


Onlooker, I think that the source of the information is very important. Some of the sources are so questionable is to not be reliable at all. Truly MSM probably gets a kernel of the undeniable facts right, but not much else nowadays. Makes you wonder who to trust? I think many of us (here) have already built up bullshit filters, but they seem to have to be added to continually.

The worst thing about the MSM is that they can manipulate one on fear (and on complacency) very easily. It is better IMO to mostly ignore MSM, and if something catches one's attention, to look it up separately, checking references (if it is that important) or ignoring it otherwise.
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Re: How real is real

Postby ennui2 » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 14:30:41

And alternative "news".

Anti-vaccers and the like?

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Re: How real is real

Postby SeaGypsy » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 14:40:44

It's 4 am here & I usually wake at 5, I woke with a thought about this thread so here it is.

Truth is an atrophying concept. Actual reality always differs from our concept of truth, based on the way our brains work as well as on our hierachical social structures. The brain looks for patterns, identifies them (even when they don't exist or we know the pattern is wrong) we are still invariably drawn to fit everything into a pattern. Most people are too lazy to develop their own, or to deconstruct existing patterns to find the mistakes, lies, falsehoods or imperfections, simply accepting or rejecting the pattern as it is presented.

But, if everyone was like this, we probably never would have come down from the trees & out from the caves. For so many reasons, our evolution would have been impossible.

The atrophying, conforming mindset is necessary to maintain personal & social order, sanity. As Bob Dylan said a long time ago, if anyone actually knew everything, their brain would explode. This links to Relativity & expansion as an object reaches the speed of light. We are creatures capable of conceptualizing an infinitely expanding universe, which at the outer edges expands at the speed of light. This has been talked about for ages. But just as we once placed the Earth at the center of the Universe, even the great minds struggle with the concept of actual infinity- an obvious conceptual fact, implying infinite Universes, actually undermining the term itself, implying what we call "the Universe" is just one of an infinite number of Megaverses, with no central orbital point. Humans love orbits, we were made on one.
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Re: How real is real

Postby Subjectivist » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 15:04:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')When the MSM reports a story about Fukushima do they report the facts, or do they hype fear with every scary sounding word in their vocabulary to draw more audience and increase their ratings for ad revenue purposes?


Nope. That would be Mike Ruppert, prior to blowing his head off in a depressive funk, who said everyone on the West Coast would be dead within weeks/months.

http://www.vice.com/video/apocalypse-man-part-5


Strawman, Mike Ruppert was not part of the MSM.
NBC however is, and they have repeatedly used anti nuclear groups like The Union of Concerned Scientists to promote fear and drive viewership.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he idea that Fukushima-related cancers may go undetected gives no comfort to Edwin Lyman, a physicist and senior scientist with the Union of Concerned Scientists, a group that advocates for nuclear safety. He said that even if cancers don't turn up in population studies, that "doesn't mean the cancers aren't there, and it doesn't mean it doesn't matter."
"I think that a prediction of thousands of cancer deaths as a result of the radiation from Fukushima is not out of line," Lyman said. But he stressed that authorities can do a lot to limit the toll by reducing future exposure to the radiation. That could mean expensive decontamination projects, large areas of condemned land and people never returning home, he said. "There's some difficult choices ahead."

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45376302/ns/h ... 9G1Quv3arU
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Re: How real is real

Postby ennui2 » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 15:27:07

The media reported what a guy said. Big whoop. That's their job.
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Re: How real is real

Postby onlooker » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 15:36:11

I think Sea your hitting upon a very salient point. That humans need to have identifiable structures and patterns in their lives. Hence, we accept stories that may or may not be true. Moreover, we tend to chose to believe those stories that in some way comfort us or reinforce a desirable outlook or way of looking at things. So, it is the truly mature and wise intellect that can filter out these preconceived preferences and objectively discern "truth". Emotions interfere with rational thought that is a deep and enduring axiom. The problem is that the fraud which I believe is being perpetrated by the MSM easily can be digested by people precisely because of the reasons I stated. Thus 911, the whole War on Terrorism is an ongoing theme that invites us to seek the protection of our Government against the bogeyman out there. We here know that the real nasty bogeyman is LTG yet in the fabricated world of main stream mass media it is this supposedly ongoing clash between cultures. Notice that selling soap is also about assuaging the perceived needs and wants of the consumer.
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Re: How real is real

Postby SeaGypsy » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 15:58:06

So called MSM is in deep panic about where it's paycheck is coming from. As folks shop for information sources, as the video camera cellphone becomes ubiquitous, as the blogosphere expands, mainstream traditional news outlets are dying, literally. Read their editorials in the topic & the situation is dire, true journalism, professional news seeking & story telling is one of the greatest of human endeavors etc etc. Fact is, like cops who hate weed becoming legal or Christians who hate other religions proliferating, it's a turf war & these people have everything to lose.
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Re: How real is real

Postby SeaGypsy » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 16:01:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'T')he media reported what a guy said. Big whoop. That's their job.


Go back to your corner & put a shot of whiskey in your next latte would you? You aren't contributing anything, just snarking & sniping. Grow up.
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Re: How real is real

Postby ennui2 » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 16:19:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'T')he media reported what a guy said. Big whoop. That's their job.


Go back to your corner & put a shot of whiskey in your next latte would you? You aren't contributing anything, just snarking & sniping. Grow up.


You grow up. You just spun a fantasy about "the media" as if they are some monolithic entity. IMHO, this mentality is one step shy of believing in the flying spaghetti monster. You and your delusions of grandeur that you're somehow exposing some sort of grand cabal...
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Re: How real is real

Postby AgentR11 » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 16:21:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'C')ould someone give an example of the MSM, by virtue of wanting to "sell soap" reporting an untruth? And I'm talking about something that is directly relevant to doom, today.


untruth, as in intentionally misleading is FAR to strong an assertion from what I wrote. They repeat press releases, and quote people from conferences.

That is by definition not an UNTRUTH; but if you rely on that to achieve an understanding of the world we live in, you will be very poorly served.

There is also the issue of editorial selection; so I WILL give you a "sell soap" example. With the Syria issue, it is important that each story express a good guy/bad guy narrative, with various quotes from the anointed good guys, and the anointed bad guys. There is hardly any coverage of how many and which Russian transports have sailed from Novorossysk to Tartus this week, or this month; no coverage of whether they are flying Turkish courtesy flags during transit, no coverage of what tonnage of material they are moving, and in which direction. Basically, there is no good guy, bad guy thing going on there, but it is FAR more relevant to the Syrian war than anything about some supposed hospital getting blown up for the 18th time, or the "last doctor in Allepo" is killed.... (repeat each week ad nauseum). THAT does produce a story with a good guy/bad guy thing, and an "outrage of the day" hook; but it is completely and totally irrelevant to this final stage of the Syrian conflict.

Basically, our media hates reporting anything where THEY have to go out and count stuff, measure stuff, weigh stuff. Because it is EXPENSIVE reporting. They'd much rather take a white house press release, decorate it a bit, and publish with a couple quotes from random morons.
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Re: How real is real

Postby SeaGypsy » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 16:23:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'T')he media reported what a guy said. Big whoop. That's their job.


Go back to your corner & put a shot of whiskey in your next latte would you? You aren't contributing anything, just snarking & sniping. Grow up.


You grow up. You just spun a fantasy about "the media" as if they are some monolithic entity. IMHO, this mentality is one step shy of believing in the flying spaghetti monster. You and your delusions of grandeur that you're somehow exposing some sort of grand cabal...



More noise & insults, that's about it from you these days, boring little grommet.
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Re: How real is real

Postby onlooker » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 18:30:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')his mentality is one step shy of believing in the flying spaghetti monster.

Memo to the naive a small number of corporations control and own a whole lot
http://www.internationalbusinessguide.org/corporations/
These 6 Corporations Control 90% Of The Media In America
http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6- ... ica-2012-6
Your not in Kansas anymore 8O :shock:
Sea what is grommet? 8)
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Re: How real is real

Postby SeaGypsy » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 19:12:42

There is one at the base of every condom, circular bit of rubber designed to prevent leaks.
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Re: How real is real

Postby ennui2 » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 20:00:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')it is FAR more relevant to the Syrian war


That's your opinion. What's relevant is whatever people want to know. And part of what they want to know is human-interest. Should, after Katrina or Sandy, the news only cover raw statistics or is it OK to interview a sampling of people who suffered? How about 911? Should the news not have talked to any of the bystanders since it's just worthless touchy-feely crap? So you're being ridiculous. Start your own news blog if you want to report things your way. That's how people like Cenk Uygur got his start, and probably Amy Goodman and many others. Then people will accuse you of having bias.
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Re: How real is real

Postby SeaGypsy » Thu 08 Sep 2016, 22:24:01

Being selective about the bystander opinions.
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Re: How real is real

Postby SumYunGai » Fri 09 Sep 2016, 00:25:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'T')he media reported what a guy said. Big whoop. That's their job.


Go back to your corner & put a shot of whiskey in your next latte would you? You aren't contributing anything, just snarking & sniping. Grow up.

Ennui might not have much to contribute, but that hasn't stopped him from putting up some pretty impressive numbers lately. What he lacks in quality, he now makes up for in shear quantity of posts.

Image

This site is currently experiencing an ennui glut! Hopefully 34 posts in one day will constitute the all time peak. I wonder what caused ennui's production numbers to suddenly spike so uncontrollably?
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