[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')It is more green-washing. Makes the pseudo-concerned-types feel good so they can go on lecturing and hectoring the masses.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')I know the f#ck more about sustainability and permaculture (whatever that is?) then you could ever learn. I have studied in practice and academically.

[Shaved Monkey]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'A')gain, I'm not saying that I know for sure that all grazing is bad. I assume there are ways to do it that are much better than others.

But I do know that you cannot feed the world at Western rates of meat consumption on pasture raised beef.

Those who want to eat beef at that rate should be the biggest enthusiasts for other going vegan.

[dohboi]

I never said to feed the world on pasture raised beef... the answer [is] not restricting your diet...

These two statements contradict each other.

If no one is willing to restrict their diet, then they will continue to eat more beef and, if that beef is not all pasture raised (and probably even then, but we'll set that aside for now), they will create all the problems that we have been talking about.

Again (and again and again) most people most of the time will need to be mostly vegan if we are going to have any remote chance of not seeing billions starve while decimating the planet at the same time.

If you want to be among those still eating plenty of beef, you should be the biggest freaking promoters of veganism.

[vtsnowedin]

It is not about the diet of the people. It is the number of people who have a diet.
Get rid of the excess population and the argument becomes moot. Fail to control the population and all diet regimes will fail to solve the problem.

[Newfie]

Pretty simple logic really. Hard to see why some don't get it.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'F')ail to control the population and all diet regimes will fail to solve the problem.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', '
')If you want to be among those still eating plenty of beef, you should be the biggest freaking promoters of veganism.

[Shaved Monkey]

I dont eat a lot of beef in Australian,US measures, but whether I think vegans are not going to save the world or not isnt going to stop the wealthy former 3rd worlder or wealthy 1st worlder from wanting it.
but maybe if they ate more free range beef from Australia they wouldnt eat so many pangolin
http://www.smh.com.au/world/seven-deadl ... p4qvw.html

Dont know how the Kalahari,Tibetans, Mongols or Swiss and Japanese are going to get their protein if they are going vegan do they ship it in from a tofu factory somewhere and where does this tofu all come from?

The only thing that can save the world from destruction is less people eating sustaineably not veganism and both are never going to happen through choice

[Shaved Monkey]

best way to make sure you get a good rice crop and add a bit of sustainable protein to your meal.
I wonder what the vegan alternative will be starving people surrounded by fat rats and no rice ?

[SeaGypsy]

I quit being vegan while living with aboriginal people where most of the year that meant eating grass.

[dohboi]

Yes, sm, tofu is absolutely the only possible source of non-meat protein on earth!

(How else but with snark can I possible respond to such bizarre positions?? )

You do know that there have been Buddhist monks in Japan and Tibet for hundreds of years who eat essentially a vegan diet, right?

And again (and again and again), no one is asking the folks in the Kalahari or the Inuit, for X's sake, to take up vegatrianism!

The point is that net meat consumption has to go down rather than up if we want to have any chance of even avoiding worst case scenarios while having any chance of adequately feeding the global population.

And saying that it is not the diet but the number of people with the diet is essentially saying that consumption rates per capita is totally irrelevant; that the famous "I = PAT" formula just has to be I = P. In other words, it's a claim that is stupid beyond belief (yet seems to come up again and again among otherwise reasonably intelligent people--why is that, one wonders). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_%3D_PAT

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'F')ail to control the population and all diet regimes will fail to solve the problem.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', '
')
And saying that it is not the diet but the number of people with the diet is essentially saying that consumption rates per capita is totally irrelevant; that the famous "I = PAT" formula just has to be I = P. In other words, it's a claim that is stupid beyond belief (yet seems to come up again and again among otherwise reasonably intelligent people--why is that, one wonders). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_%3D_PAT

[dohboi]

Yes, I conceded above that reducing meat, by itself, was not enough.

But guess what: World populations growth rates are already going down.

The most important thing to do to decrease growth rates even more quickly is to educate women.

That is my 'day job.'

What are you doing in that direction?

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'Y')es, I conceded above that reducing meat, by itself, was not enough.

But guess what: World populations growth rates are already going down.

The most important thing to do to decrease growth rates even more quickly is to educate women.

That is my 'day job.'

What are you doing in that direction?

[dohboi]

One eternal student daughter (vegan, of course! ), no kids (that she's admitted to! ).

Congratulations on the daughters, though.

[dohboi]

Not the main reason I'm (mostly) vegan, but nice to know that this is an added perk!

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press ... hu-satija/

Healthy plant-based diet linked with substantially lower type 2 diabetes risk

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onsuming a plant-based diet—especially one rich in high-quality plant foods such as whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, and legumes—is linked with substantially lower risk of developing type 2 diabetes, according to a new study from Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health...

“A shift to a dietary pattern higher in healthful plant-based foods, such as vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, nuts, and seeds, and lower in animal-based foods, especially red and processed meats, can confer substantial health benefits in reducing risk of type 2 diabetes,” said Frank Hu, professor of nutrition and epidemiology at Harvard Chan School and senior author of the study...

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'N')ot the main reason I'm (mostly) vegan, but nice to know that this is an added perk!

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press ... hu-satija/

Healthy plant-based diet linked with substantially lower type 2 diabetes risk

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onsuming a plant-based diet—especially one rich in high-quality plant foods such as whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, and legumes—is linked with substantially lower risk of developing type 2 diabetes, according to a new study from Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health...

“A shift to a dietary pattern higher in healthful plant-based foods, such as vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, nuts, and seeds, and lower in animal-based foods, especially red and processed meats, can confer substantial health benefits in reducing risk of type 2 diabetes,” said Frank Hu, professor of nutrition and epidemiology at Harvard Chan School and senior author of the study...