[Didga]

Any comments on these websites ?

http://www.gasmileagebreakthroughs.com/

http://www.condensatorsales.com/index.html

[Novus]

They are probably frauds. They won't tell you very much except generalizations until you pay them.

[ubercrap]

Complete rubbish. On a related note- Read the Energy Technology Forums and some interesting posts about electric cars recently.

[T_McD]

Hello,

I registered on this board specifically to comment on this thread.

My name is Tom McDowell, I own Condensator Sales. We manufacture distribute and install the device known as the Condensator.

We've no affiliation with the website "gasmileage breackthroughs".

Since November of 2004, we've installed over 2000 Condensators in Montana. We've a very satisfied customer base. Most of our customers report fuel savings in the 15 to 20% range. The figure of 100% reported by the above mentioned website is not from our published results. We have seen isolated cases of a drastic reduction in fuel consumption approaching 100%, however this is far from the norm.

There is some merit to the claim that the Condensator has been a supressed technology as the inventor, Mr. Elmer W. Bush, endured significant harrasment. At one point he sued the California Air Resources Board (CARB), and won. His case was later overturned in a higher court. Initially CARB had claimed the device actually increased emissions. After a lengthy period of time CARB was forced to admit the Condensator does in fact reduce tailpie emissions of CO and THC. To date, the device is legal in California on vehicles up to 1992. From 1993 forward the Condensator is illegal as an aftermarket device in California. For a device proven to reduce air pollution, and deliver more miles for less hydrocarbons consumed, one can only question the lack of it's widespead implementation.

If you've questions, feel free to call us you'll find our published telephone number at our website. We're an open and above board company.

Lastly, I've an interest in conservation. I've worked in several sectors of the oilflied industry. From drilling rigs in Alaska, to pumping gas in Washington DC, to documenting the effects and lessons of the Exxon Valdez, to documenting spills in Antarctica. It's my opinion the more we can squeeze out a barrel of crude, the better off we'll be.

Best Regards,

Tom McDowell

[Caoimhan]

Hey! He has a right to defend the technology he sells.

Caoimhan

[dukey]

how does this work ?

im guessing it somehow recyles unburnt carbon through the system
if it is indeed doing this then the claims must be true

how does it seperate the exhaust gases to do this ?

[Devil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s a result of the compression and detonation piston strokes, an estimated 4 to 10 percent of the fuel air mixture passes by the piston rings.

[aahala]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('T_McD', 'W')e have seen isolated cases of a drastic reduction in fuel consumption approaching 100%, however this is far from the norm.

[T_McD]

aahala,

Thanks! Should of written a 50% reduction. We've seen vehicles go from
8 mpg to 16 mpg, a 100% increase in mpg, or, a 50% reduction in fuel
consumption.

IRT labels of scam, snake-oil, ect., I'm getting used to what I
consider knee jerk reations. Further, we hear from quite a few people
who we lovingly refer to as "geniuses". These people are fast to heap
scorn, ridicule and offer their own special reasons why the Condensator
should not, can not work, or will somehow harm the vehicles engine.

I've learned it's not the best practice to engage in online debate
regarding the Condensator.

However, in light of the idea most readers will be instantly disuaded by the geniuses from taking a closer look, and, the subject of peak oil is important to me, I'll present a brief explantion and reply.

For Devil,

I appreciate your taking the time to look things over in order to come to an understanding of how the Condensator works. Just several points to clarify.

1. All internal combustion engines are inefficient. It is well known on each stroke of the piston (compression and detonation) some gasses will escape, passing the rings of the piston, traveling down the walls of the cylinder, and into the crankcase of the engine. Just what the percentage is is certainly subjective to engine age and design. However since these gasses pass the rings on each stroke of the cycle, mix with engine oil, and keeping in mind most engines have four to eight pistons, and an engine usually runs in the ranges of 650 to 4500 revolutions per minute - quite a bit of vapor is produced. This vapor is commonly known as crankcase gas.

2. The scavenging you refer to is actually an attempt to use the engine for something it was not designed to do. Namely as a furnace to incinerate crankcase gasses (which contain motor oil). This system known as Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) was implemented around 1962. Prior practice was to simply vent these gasses into the enviroment.

What is supposed to be in the engines fuel air mixture is fuel (pure gasoline) and air. When motor oil is added to the mixture, the flash point of the fuel and air is raised. One result is the performance of the engine is degraded.

Another result is not all of the mixture can burn. This results in carbon deposits and tailpipe emissions. The deposits of carbon inside the engine and exhaust stream also degrade engine performance, while over time, decrease engine life (carbon enhances friction, fouls spark plugs, injectors, and deposits reduce combustion chamber effiency).

Yet another more subtle result is the coating of the air intake passages with an oily film causing a reduction of the flow of air into the combustion chamber.

The PCV system is continuous in nature resulting in the recycling of contaminates system wide (until oil change).

By placing the Condensator into the PCV system, heavy hydrocarbons, water, acids and other contaminates are separated and collected for disposal, meanwhile lighter aromatics are allowed to pass allowing true scavenging to occur.

Thus the removal of the heavy hydrocarbons from the system ends the cycle, resulting increased fuel effiency, better engine performance, reduced engine wear, and reduced tailpipe emissions.


3. The Condensator has been tested. The most exhaustive test was conducted by the US Navy. These tests verified all claims. Allthough the tests were conducted many years ago the results still apply. Advances in internal combustion engine design have increased engine effiency (fuel injection, computerised ignition and fuel delivery, etc.), yet crankcase gasses are germane to the system. For instance - we've installed Condensators on hybrid vehicles, increases in fuel economy are evident.

4. Water as byproduct of the combustion process is commonly known as harmful to an engine. Water and oil do not mix well.

FWIW - we have a very satisfied customer base. Since September of 2004, we've an installed base of over 2000 units. The majority of which were installed by us in our immediate geographical area (Montana). Very satisfied customers (many which are repeat customers) combined with a very low return rate (less than one percent), helps to overcome our perceived "scammer" status.

Please feel free to call us with individual questions.

Due to time constraints replies to this posting will be at best sporadic.

Best Regards,

Tom

Links on PCV systems:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h63.pdf (Toyota explantion)
or, http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/94-2R1.pdf (filter council)