[Timo]

Best of luck, Cog. All other differences aside, i'm pulling for you.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'B')est of luck, Cog. All other differences aside, i'm pulling for you.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'A')s I have donned my executor hat, instead of my guardianship hat, there will be some drama coming up with some of my relatives. As my lawyer has explained, nothing brings out the worst in people than an estate settlement. In this case, I will be selling my father's farm to a farmer and not to my nephew. The farmer's bid was higher, he wants to buy it as is, and with no inspection contingencies. But I know I am going to get some crap about it.

The deal is as executor, your goal is to maximize the assets of the estate and not let family desires/ heartburn affect your decisions. Legally, I don't have to accept any offer, from anyone.

I'm trying to ignore the fact that my nephew couldn't possibly get the financing for this deal. I'm going with the farmer, who has the money, and has pursued the property for months now.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jedrider', 'I')sn't it better to kill oneself once alzheimer's sets in?

I remember reading about this woman journalist independent person who left herself instructions on how to kill herself that even a demented person could follow.

If I succumb to a mental illness before the world falls apart, I wouldn't want to burden my kids with looking after me. I think I would arrange for some inexpensive help as long as possible.

[jedrider]

I did LIKE the ending to 'Soylent Green': The Euthanasia Center. I'm sure, they meant that as a shock to the movie audience. However, nobody wants to die in pain. If they could make it pleasant, I wouldn't care who ate me afterwards

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jedrider', 'I') did LIKE the ending to 'Soylent Green': The Euthanasia Center. I'm sure, they meant that as a shock to the movie audience. However, nobody wants to die in pain. If they could make it pleasant, I wouldn't care who ate me afterwards

[SeaGypsy]

For sure some enthusiasts would argue your besties name might be Dianne Nivia Ross & spark you anyhow- probably have to spell it out, weird tattoo guy

There are currently plenty of online channels for 'exit' methods & equipment. My father almost begged me to get him a lethal dose of heroin when he was dying, funny he fell in with a woman who kept him kicking another 18 months- I refused to do it because with my unruly youth I would have been immediately under the spotlight. I can see both sides very clearly- I am the one who is going to decide the time & manner of my passing, but I don't give a hoot about the 'law' I can sort it all myself, nobody else needs to get involved. That's where it all goes pear shaped- people who have lived very conservative lives, unsullied by depraved company- genuinely struggle to get this control, they must rely on others- who have what, say it again- what motive? How can an objective assessment be possible of such a relationship? Given the acutely subjective nature of the conundrum, the law is always confused about it- unless the person clearly acted alone, acquired items themselves, kept them away from others & independent of others used such items to terminate- that is called suicide, in every culture. Assisted suicide is a whole nuther kettle of fish, & in a culture ruled by money it is intensely fraught.

[KaiserJeep]

I knew someone of several years acquaintance who (finally) got a diagnosis of a fatal disease (acute systemic scleroderma, a devastating auto-immune illness that was turning his flesh into a swollen shell around him). He suffered for 8 years while the doctors tried increasingly potent drugs, and at best got only temporary respite from his suffering during the last three years, and he gradually started to look like the Michelin tire man. When he had enough opiates to be pain-free, he fell asleep, and his pain level was ever-increasing. One day he went to the local marine supply and bought 40 feet of chain, a padlock, and a mushroom anchor. Then he rented a sailboat, which returned slowly on autopilot and grounded on the beach next to the USCG small-boat station, with the engine throttled down to minimize damage. No clues, other than two empty wine bottles and a padlock key - no note, but a will that had been updated a month before.

Another longtime friend got a cancer diagnosis - it started in his esophagus, but he was in Stage IV and had tumors throughout his abdomen before the doctors figured out what his "trouble swallowing food" was. He had six months of chemo misery with a plastic stent in his esophagus that allowed him to swallow, and to throw up from the chemo drugs, and then suffered enormous pain before dying. Again, when conscious, he was a Fentanyl zombie, who used to email me using his E-reader from his chemo chair in more lucid but painful moments. It was an enormously hard thing for me to text and mail about trivia such as SF novels, but he and I had known one another for 25+ years, and had Jeeped, fished, and camped together every year. He concealed the worst of his suffering from his family, but not me. He was in Texas and I was in California, but I felt like driving there and smothering him with a pillow sometimes.

Our system of dying needs work - everything from medical ethics and training to education for elderly and sick people.

[SeaGypsy]

My dad died from systemic scleroderma also KJ, with a similar descriptor. In the end it was internal bleeding, I was working away & missed the event at the end.

[Cog]

I think you will find religious viewpoints constantly evolving on end of life decisions. From the Christians I deal with there nearly a universal agreement that a patient refusing treatment for a terminal illness is not suicide. With the advent of hospice workers and a lot of doctors who are getting more intelligent about end of life treatments, there is not as much guilt involved with stopping treatment when there is no hope. That takes a lot of burden away from the family members.

It is important that if you have directives you have them written down and have given someone you trust the power to enforce them. You don't have to accept any medical treatment if you don't want to. If your unconscious, the hospital will try to save you unless someone with medical power of attorney says otherwise.

I'm still unsure on the issue of assisted suicide. I know we try to draw parallels on how we treat our pets versus our seniors. With a pet, they can't tell us what they would prefer to do and can't decide on their own to terminate their life. With our parents or someone we care about, its a discussion we can have and should have prior. As long as there is no coercion involved, I'm for people pretty much deciding how they want to die. I'm not quite comfortable with a Dr Kervorkian traveling around putting people down like a vet would. Seems there needs to be some checks and balances in place to make sure this person really understands their options.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'B')est of luck, Cog. All other differences aside, i'm pulling for you.

[Timo]

On assisted suicide, Dr. Kevorkian simply brought the issue to the public's attention. There was a need for assisted suicide among some dark corners of the public. He recognized this need, and decided to fill that void by providing end-of-life assistance to people who simply did not want to continue living under their current physical circumstances. That said, i totally agree with you about the need for checks on who, how, when, and under what circumstances, and all of that. Assisted suicide is something that involves more than just one person, and it's obviously a life or death decision for one party, and a potential huge liability for the other party. That liability could be financial, or even worse, emotional. It's not an easy decision for anybody. Still, i strongly support the necessary steps be taken to allow someone to choose to end their life, under legally defined and legally sanctioned methods. Switzerland currently allows assisted suicide. So does Quebec, and Oregon. I'm sure there are several other nations that are coming to terms with this ultimate fate, and it's obviously not for everybody. It can be, however, a preferable end for some.

[Cog]

Thank you Timo for posting that. You have given us a lot to consider going forward.

[Cog]

I've spoken about being a guardian but being an executor has some different responsibilities. Below are some things I learned so far.

1) Get the certified death certificates from the funeral home as soon as possible. The standard is to give you 15 of them. I ordered 20. In actuality you won't need the 15. Only social security and my dad's life insurance policy required an actual certified copy, the rest of the places I dealt with only wanted a photocopy. But get them quickly because most places want to see one.

2) Get a lawyer. You don't have to give them a percentage of the estate if you have some time to run around yourself. Lawyers cost money to the estate and you can save money by doing the running. There are deadlines involved such as filing the will in the county court house. In my state you have 30 days from time of death to make that happen. Lawyers can make this all pretty and if probate is involved, they can get the judge to sign off on your executor papers fairly quickly.

3) There are several different types of executors. A small estate affidavit if the estate is worth less than $100k. A unsupervised executor, if the estate is larger, which allows you to sell estate assets and estate bills without getting permission. A supervised executor which requires judicial permission for major decisions.

4) Get a bunch of folders. Keep receipts for everything you do. To end your executor status, you will have to show how and to who the estate money was disbursed. Your lawyer can help you do this.

5) It is mandatory to set up an estate checking account in my state even if the deceased has a checking account. The bank can transfer any money in the old one to the new one. you will need to obtain a tax ID number for the estate. An estate's tax ID number is called an “employer identification number,” . You can do this yourself on-line, takes five minutes or your lawyer can do it.

6) There is a precedence of payments when it comes to paying bills. Consult your attorney so you know what those are. Inheritors come last on that list.

7) Most places will want to see a copy of your letters of office as executor before they will talk to you. I got two original stamped originals and everyone so far has only required a photocopy of them. I know when I go to DMV to sell a car, they want a stamped original.

8 ) Unless you were intimately aware of all the financial affairs of the deceased, you are going to have to plunge through all the deceased records to see what assets and bills are lurking in there. In my state you have 60 days to identify those to the probate court judge.

9) Keep your promises to a minimum when it comes to relatives mentioned in the will. Tell them their cut is part of the legal process and you can do nothing to speed it up. That is in fact the truth of it.

10) Most states have a requirement to publish in a newspaper the death of a person and announce that creditors have 6 months to seek monies from the estate. I let my lawyer handle that one.

[Cog]

I wanted to bring up wills because an issue came up that you might run into.

My father did his will verbally and my sister typed it up for him. Two witnesses not named as heirs in the will, signed it along with my father. Perfectly legal to do your own will. One small problem. Before the probate judge will accept it, he wants it authenticated that the witnesses actually did sign it. In my dad's case, the witnesses were still alive and we had to call them and ask them to come to my attorney's office to authenticate it in front of the firm's notary. Had the witnesses been deceased or unwilling to authenticate the will, it would have resulted in a court proceeding.

You can avoid this process if you have the will notarized at the time of signing by the witnesses and the testator. In most states that makes the will self-authenticating.

By the way, don't lose the original inked will. We had several photo-copies of it but that was not good enough. We thought we had lost the original for a while and that would have resulted in yet another court process. I finally found the original buried in the bottom of my file cabinet in an unmarked envelope. I'm a frigging idiot.

If you use an attorney to do the will, they will retain the original inked copy of the will if you desire.

[Timo]

Why does dying have to be so freakin' complicated???!!!

Cog, i'm not dismissing anything you're going through, or have gone through, but reading your last couple of posts hardly makes dying worth all of the legal hassle it inevitably causes to others. The emotional loss seems easy compared to the legal consequences it causes!

I can die with dignity, but the law will be damned if indignities aren't forced upon at least one other person who has to deal with the deceased's will and last wishes.

Yesterday being father's day, three of us five kids had lunch with pop. He's now 89, and still drives on rare occasions. He can't walk without a walker on wheels with hand brakes. He spent some time yesterday sharing his thoughts on the unpleasant eventuality of his move into assisted living, and then a wheel chair, and finally into a bed that he'll never rise from. Based on where he was 5 years ago, all of that is bound to happen within a year, or two at the most.

It's inevitable. We all go through it, either as a son or a daughter, and/or the parent who's time has come and gone. Dying is a part of life. Ce la vie.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I')'ve spoken about being a guardian but being an executor has some different responsibilities. Below are some things I learned so far.

1) Get the certified death certificates from the funeral home as soon as possible. The standard is to give you 15 of them. I ordered 20. In actuality you won't need the 15. Only social security and my dad's life insurance policy required an actual certified copy, the rest of the places I dealt with only wanted a photocopy. But get them quickly because most places want to see one.

[Timo]

OK! That's it! I've read enough about postmortem aftershocks. Not worth it. I can't, in good conscience, leave all of those responsibilities to someone else to take care of on my behalf. So, while reading this thread, i've made a decision. I'm simply not going to die. Everything will be much simpler that way. Don't worry, though. I'll turn out the lights.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'O')K! That's it! I've read enough about postmortem aftershocks. Not worth it. I can't, in good conscience, leave all of those responsibilities to someone else to take care of on my behalf. So, while reading this thread, i've made a decision. I'm simply not going to die. Everything will be much simpler that way. Don't worry, though. I'll turn out the lights.

[EdwinSm]

Thanks Cog - a good summary.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I') think you will find religious viewpoints constantly evolving on end of life decisions. From the Christians I deal with there nearly a universal agreement that a patient refusing treatment for a terminal illness is not suicide. With the advent of hospice workers and a lot of doctors who are getting more intelligent about end of life treatments, there is not as much guilt involved with stopping treatment when there is no hope. That takes a lot of burden away from the family members.