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Confederate Flag's Days are Numbered
Re: Confederate Flag's Days are Numbered
by Sixstrings » Fri 20 May 2016, 17:56:54
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'S')o, then you would recruit someone with the ISIS flag tattooed to their body as well? Just asking?
No. And it's offensive to compare those two things. But other than military recruitment, the first amendment allows for books and views and free speech that are universally abhorrent -- that's the price we pay for the first amendment.
The swastika is not "banned," for example. It's ultimately up to the courts to sort out what what speech should be banned, and that's generally limited to obscenity and yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, and slander / libel / "fighting words." But not books, not disgusting views either, and certainly not something as mixed as the confederate flag.
There's other ways to go after nazis and such, or radical muslims, or everyone in a gettysburg gift shop -- other than banning generalized things and punishing large classes of people.
I don't know what world you guys live in, if you really think every RV at nascar with a rebel flag on it, are bigots.
I guess we just have a major difference of views going on -- there really are large parts of this country where the people do not see the confederate flag that way. They really do see it as culture, country music, civil war re-enactors and tourists and history and museums.
The Civil War ended 150ish years ago. Civil war history is deeply entrenched in places like West Point, etc. You really can't just root it out -- the racism, yes (and in my opinion, that's been gone MY ENTIRE LIFETIME); but you can't root out the history overall and what's good about Southern culture.
For goodness sake, it's the SOUTH and red states that mostly serve in our nation's military and they bear the burden.
What about all the bigotry up north? There's a lot of it, if not more so, in places like New York. And what about Michigan, and Illinois.. can't blame racism there on the confederate flag, right?
But anyhow, for my own opinion, I have a view that's particular to my state. I'd be okay if it were flown at historical sites and museums and old forts. It's good for tourism, it's just our history, we fly the Spanish Empire and union jack too, and every flag that's ever flown over the state.
ALL of history is a bunch of bad news. The conquistadors were AWFUL. But those indians weren't all angels either, per se. Andrew Jackson, General Custer, the pilgrims.. there are no perfect people in our nation's past.
And guys that aren't bigots but have a rebel flag for a tattoo -- if that's all there is about them, that they hunt and listen to country music and fly the confederate flag, then they shouldn't be barred from public accommodations.
What it all comes down to is honestly, there really are a lot of country folks that have the rebel flag yet they are not bigots. They really aren't. You'll never believe that, but there's nothing I -- or they -- can say to convince you.
It'll be up to the courts to sort out and protect their first amendment rights. It'll work out, the courts will get it right -- they're pretty good with the first amendment.
P.S. About the military -- I don't know if there really is a policy about confederate flag tattoos, or if that was just one news story. If there's a policy about it now, then that surprises me.
2nd P.S. -- if you think every guy you see with a rebel flag on his truck is a bigot, then you're wrong. It's astounding and so offensive you think that way, like it's the same thing as ISIS or neo nazis or something.
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Re: Confederate Flag's Days are Numbered
by vtsnowedin » Fri 20 May 2016, 18:35:20
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '[')P.S. About the military -- I don't know if there really is a policy about confederate flag tattoos, or if that was just one news story. If there's a policy about it now, then that surprises me.
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It is a policy against all tattoos not just the rebel flag. I thought they were relaxing it some but perhaps the Marine corps has a higher standard.
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Re: Confederate Flag's Days are Numbered
by Sixstrings » Fri 20 May 2016, 18:36:26
Now see, I'm actually not a bigot so I don't even want to make this line of reasoning but one could ask the question -- what about rap music? Should that be banned, hm?
It shouldn't, right? Even though it's often explicitly violent? But it shouldn't, because it's the first amendment, right?
The confederate flag is just a flag, folks. It's not even words or lyrics. It may mean one thing to a bigot, and another thing to that person in the gettsyburg gift shop or at nascar.
edit: just to note, I like hop hop music AND country music. Just leave the rednecks alone guys, yeah the flag should come down at government buildings.. I think cemeteries is ok, and historical sites / relevant national parks like the battlefields.
What wasn't okay was private sector rush to ban it, just ban hammer swinging everywhere including computer strategy games, and what nascar tried to do, dukes of hazzard re-runs pulled off tv, and then these couple articles I posted about students getting suspended from school or denied their graduation diploma. That latter stuff is what could wind up in the courts.
It shouldn't, right? Even though it's often explicitly violent? But it shouldn't, because it's the first amendment, right?
The confederate flag is just a flag, folks. It's not even words or lyrics. It may mean one thing to a bigot, and another thing to that person in the gettsyburg gift shop or at nascar.
edit: just to note, I like hop hop music AND country music. Just leave the rednecks alone guys, yeah the flag should come down at government buildings.. I think cemeteries is ok, and historical sites / relevant national parks like the battlefields.
What wasn't okay was private sector rush to ban it, just ban hammer swinging everywhere including computer strategy games, and what nascar tried to do, dukes of hazzard re-runs pulled off tv, and then these couple articles I posted about students getting suspended from school or denied their graduation diploma. That latter stuff is what could wind up in the courts.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Fri 20 May 2016, 18:50:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Confederate Flag's Days are Numbered
by ennui2 » Fri 20 May 2016, 18:44:12
The only situation I think is silly is Dukes of Hazzard. They were caricatures of the deep south, despite being protagonists. I think that's harmless.
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Re: Confederate Flag's Days are Numbered
by Sixstrings » Fri 20 May 2016, 20:06:32
Kansas schoolboard may change its policies to include "microaggressions:"
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')AWRENCE, Kan. (AP) – School officials in Lawrence, Kansas, are considering changing district policies to prohibit forms of discriminatory behavior after school administrators told a high school student earlier this year that he couldn’t display a Confederate flag on his vehicle while on school grounds. ...
The committee’s recommended additions would affect three district policies: discrimination and harassment; hazing and bullying; and prohibited activity. Those policies currently prohibit verbal, physical and written discrimination or harassment. The additions would expand those rules to include symbols and microagressions.
According to the revised discrimination and harassment policy, microagressions are defined as “subtle but offensive comments or actions directed at a minority or other non-dominant group that are often unintentional or unconsciously reinforce a stereotype.”
http://ksn.com/2016/05/17/lawrence-considers-changes-to-discrimination-policies-after-student-display-confederate-flag/
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')AWRENCE, Kan. (AP) – School officials in Lawrence, Kansas, are considering changing district policies to prohibit forms of discriminatory behavior after school administrators told a high school student earlier this year that he couldn’t display a Confederate flag on his vehicle while on school grounds. ...
The committee’s recommended additions would affect three district policies: discrimination and harassment; hazing and bullying; and prohibited activity. Those policies currently prohibit verbal, physical and written discrimination or harassment. The additions would expand those rules to include symbols and microagressions.
According to the revised discrimination and harassment policy, microagressions are defined as “subtle but offensive comments or actions directed at a minority or other non-dominant group that are often unintentional or unconsciously reinforce a stereotype.”
http://ksn.com/2016/05/17/lawrence-considers-changes-to-discrimination-policies-after-student-display-confederate-flag/
So how does that square with the first amendment? Would it JUST be a rebel flag tshirt? Or, would it be pro life tshirts too? Or a Trump shirt, at school? What about a religious tshirt, or the reverse and it's an atheist one and then Christians are offended?
There are first amendment concerns going on here, with this stuff.
And I'm saying tshirts as an analogy; what if a student had a Trump bumper sticker on their notebook computer, or a rebel flag sticker. Or Christian sticker, or atheist, whatever.
Then okay, ban all the bumper stickers.. then it gets down to what people can even SAY.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Ralph Nader Rips Idea of 'Microaggressions'
'It gets more and more bitter over less and less.'
http://www.weeklystandard.com/ralph-nader-rips-idea-of-microaggressions/article/2002493
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