[dohboi]

"Not exactly a ringing endorsement for big government, the "safety" of government oversight, etc."

BS

See my comment above.

Note that this Republican 'anti-big-government' government did a fine job of protecting GM; it just couldn't be bothered to do anything for the children and citizens of Flint. In spite of repeated pleas, including from this guy:

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/2/17/m ... _whose_bid

Meet the Flint Official Whose Bid to Restore Safe Drinking Water Was Blocked by an Unelected Manage

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', ' ')That river water was even refused by GM since it corroded engine parts.

[dohboi]

+1

[Plantagenet]

Politifact just did a very nice review of the whole timeline of the Flint Water crisis.

Politifact: whos-blame-flint-water-crisis

They name names and assign blame---theres more than enough blame to go around for everyone.

Politifact brought up something important I hadn't seen before----actually there was no decision by the state appointed manager to switch from Detroit Water to Flint River Water. The manager actually made a decision to switch from Detroit Water to Lake Water. That required construction of a new pipeline.

But as soon as Flint announced this decision, Detroit Water cut off Flint from using the clean Detroit water they'd relied on for decades

Oh, Detroit gave Flint a few months , but then Detroit cut Flint off. God knows why Detroit didn't work with Flint and keep supplying water until the new pipeline was done, but they didn't. Detroit turned Flint's clean water off. Once Detroit cut Flint off, then Flint needed a new water supply right away to tide them over until they could get the lake water. The only available water was the Flint River.

So actually the blame for switching from Detroit Water to Flint River water belongs to DETROIT---It was DETROIT that turned off the supply of clean water to Flint.

Cheers!

[dohboi]

As your own article states, investigations are still underway by both the FBI and the MI Attorney General's office. So I'm sure there's much more to learn.

Interesting that you start by saying that 'there's plenty of blame to go around' then end up putting all of the blame on one city. Do you read what you write, or do you just not mind constantly contradicting yourself??

And you seem to have missed the part in your own article where it says:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')...the buck does stop with Snyder...

"There was a lot of wishful thinking by which the tax cutters dreamed that they could keep on cutting taxes without having any real consequences," said Charles L. Ballard, an economist at Michigan State University. "But tax cuts of this magnitude, some of which were passed during the first year of Gov. Snyder’s administration, were bound to have real consequences.

Snyder also appointed the emergency managers who signed off on the switch away from Detroit’s water system and the decision to use Flint River water as an interim solution.

Snyder does bear a significant share of the responsibility. His fiscal approach helped set the stage for the water switch that led to the poisoning, and it was his hand-picked emergency managers who implemented the changes. Snyder also oversaw the state environmental and health departments that have come in for sharp criticism for their failures to act quickly and forcefully when the first indications of a problem cropped up.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')......

"There was a lot of wishful thinking by which the tax cutters dreamed that they could keep on cutting taxes without having any real consequences," said Charles L. Ballard, an economist at Michigan State University. "But tax cuts of this magnitude, some of which were passed during the first year of Gov. Snyder’s administration, were bound to have real consequences.

[Cog]

Democrats made this happen.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', '
')
Interesting that you start by saying that 'there's plenty of blame to go around' then end up putting all of the blame on one city. Do you read what you write, or do you just not mind constantly contradicting yourself??

[dohboi]

Actually, you said exactly that. You know, your earlier post is just up the thread a ways.

But I'll leave it for others to look for themselves to see whether or not you did in fact start a post with "theres [sic] more than enough blame to go around for everyone"

and end with "So actually the blame for switching from Detroit Water to Flint River water belongs to DETROIT"

(In all caps, no less!)

So now you can't even re-read your own post accurately. Maybe a visit back to a primary school room rather than to Rhodes would be a better use of your time!!??

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', ' ')Maybe a visit back to a primary school room ... would be a better use of your time!!??

[dohboi]

Ah, the thin skin of the ones who always claim that the oppressed are always crying about victimization.

All far too typical.

Cheers and good night to you, too.

Do have a great vacation.

But do think about a bit of remedial reading instruction in the mix.

Goes well with bitters, I'm told!

[drwater]

KaiserJeep said

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')verybody is assuming wrongdoing where there in fact may be none.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('drwater', ' ') It is surprising the EPA didn't get more alarmed about this faster once they did get involved.

[KaiserJeep]

Thank you, drwater.

So we have established that the Federal EPA should have done something to warn the public, and the regional EPA manager has resigned rather than to face the wrath of the EPA Director appointed by Barack Obama's Democratic administration.

We have established that the root cause of the issue was the water officials who work for the Democratic Mayor of Detroit denying the city of Flint any more water. We have further established that the water management folks in Flint should have taken steps to protect the pipes from the more acidic river water, and did not. Furthermore, we have established that they also did nothing to warn the people of Flint, and should have - and that there was a newly elected Democratic administration in Flint when this happened. Now if you want to know the reason that the river is acidic, that would be because the MidWest burns a lot of coal and suffers from acid rain, and this was discovered in the 1960s when we had a Democratic Mayor and Governor in Michigan and a Republican (Nixon) in the White House.

We have established also that there simply is NO POLITICAL ELEMENT WHATSOEVER to cause this health problem, only the incompetence of the water utility types that work for the Flint public water utility, which was never "privatized". If anybody thinks there is anything to learn from this, other than you should hire competent people to oversee matters of public health, especially including a clean and safe water supply, you are simply wrong. As a general rule, never look for a conspiracy where simple human incompetence provides an adequate explanation of what has happened.

If there is some deep dark defect in your soul that insists that the "other party" did something wrong, always, then what is broken is your own heart, or your own head, or your own soul. Very likely, you have lost your belief in the basic goodness of people of all political persuasions, and are now a sad, broken curmudgeon, bitterly complaining on the Web, and fighting with those that are probably very like yourself, but belong to the other party.

The health effects of lead were established almost a century ago, and we even purged the lead from the solder used to join lengths of copper piping. Having lead pipes this many decades past the discovery of the hazards they pose is - more than any other cause - the root of this problem. (It may also have been what destroyed the Roman empire, if you care to dig into History.)

One last comment: Our system of government is working, the 4th estate is finally working, and the light of publicity is finally shining on this problem, and it is being fixed. Already the incompetent people are resigning and there is a long investigation that needs to happen, and anybody digging up a single fact and loudly blaming one political party or another TODAY, is simply a sad shell of a human being, a bitter and useless person, who needs to walk away from politics and find another hobby. You could start by not logging onto the Internet for a month, and see how you feel. From time to time I get in my Jeep, and go far from the works of man, and give battle to wily native trout in mountain streams rather than imagined foes - who are probably people I would enjoy knowing and even drinking with - did not the Internet come between us.

This will end when the last of the lead pipes has been dug up and replaced. Until then, and for all time really, anybody hired in Flint to work at the water utility had best know what they are doing.

[dohboi]

"We have established"

Of course, no such things have be 'established' except in your folks' addled brains and gross and intentional misreading of the facts set before you.

But don't let me get in the way of your political fantasy!

[KaiserJeep]

I'm not having a political fantasy, at least not anymore. I am starting to make plans to go fishing instead, as soon as the danger of avalanches and mudslides abates somewhat in the mountains.

Allow me to suggest, ever so gently, that you do something as well to feed your soul, re-center your thoughts, and deal with your own mental health in whatever fashion your life experience has taught you works for you. Until then, simply try not to blame anybody else for the "problems" you perceive around you, because it is a symptom of mental illness, one shared by so many that spend too much time in the virtual world, and ignore the real world.

[dohboi]

Riiight. The guy who is planning on colonizing and terraforming distant planets is giving me advice on maintaining mental stability!! You can't make this stuff up. Thanks for the laughs, folks. Gotta go for now.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('drwater', ' ') It is surprising the EPA didn't get more alarmed about this faster once they did get involved.

[clif]

Interesting comment;

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')anuary 2015

Detroit’s water system offers to reconnect to Flint, waiving a $4 million connection fee. Three weeks later, Flint’s state-appointed emergency manager, Jerry Ambrose, declines the offer.

[vox_mundi]

Flint water crisis: 5 officials face manslaughter charges

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]FLINT – Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette today announced that he has charged Michigan Department of Health and Human Services Director Nick Lyon, former Flint Emergency Manager Darnell Earley, former City of Flint Water Department Manager Howard Croft, as well as Michigan Department of Environmental Quality’s Drinking Water Chief Liane Shekter-Smith and Water Supervisor Stephen Busch with involuntary manslaughter related to their alleged failure to act in the Flint Water Crisis.

Lyon, was appointed by Snyder to lead DHHS in April 2015. Lyon becomes the highest-ranking state employee to face criminal charges for his role in the water crisis, moving an investigation by state Attorney General Bill Schuette closer than ever to Gov. Rick Snyder.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')i]Lyon said in an email, regarding a tripling of blood lead levels in children after the city switched to river water., ...

"... the lead blood levels seen are not out of the ordinary and are attributable to seasonal fluctuations."