[Sixstrings]

Just thought I'd share this, short video of 1,400 workers hearing they're getting laid off, plant and distribution center being moved to Mexico. Because it's "the best way to stay competitive and protect the business for the long term."

Youtube:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')arrier Air Conditioner (part of United Technologies) Moving 1,400 Jobs to Mexico
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3ttxGMQOrY

[Ibon]

Time for a related and personal anecdote. One of the largest segments of air conditioning are the split level units you see ubiquitous all over developing countries. The compressor outside and the air handlers, usually horizontal units that are piped in using small pipes from the compressor. Homes in developing countries are not built with central air ducts as most homes these days are concrete block structures. Split level air conditioners are much more energy efficient then central air conditioners and manufacturers have designed and made units that start at a price level of $ 400 and up. Go to Mexico, Philippines, Thailand, Panama, you will see these everywhere.

Now it gets interesting. Having seen these inexpensive energy efficient units in my years of living abroad I was interested in putting these in a detached cottage we have in South Florida where we are doing short term rentals. These units are available but go ahead and try finding one under $ 1500. Most are $ 2000 and up. Carrier is one of the main manufacturers. So through my latino contacts I found out that there were these units available in South Florida that were taken from a bonded wharehouse that were destined for Mexico. I got one for $ 400 dollars, made by Carrier, and purchased through this clandestine source. It has been working since 4 years beautifully and I had air conditioner service guys out repairing my central air on the main house and I showed them the split level unit we installed that we got for $ 400. They were begging me to find them more but alas, this one time opportunity was gone.

This is another one of those examples how the American consumer gets shafted up the ass. Same goes fro drug prices and same goes for cell phone fees. All over the developing world these products and services are available for a fraction of what American consumers pay.

First they move the factories off shore and we lose jobs. Then they sell the products back in the US through exclusive distributors where the prices are fixed at multiples of what you can buy these same products over seas.

Why do so many industries practice this price gouging of American consumers?

This is criminal. As economic constraints worsen and people become more aware what consumers pay in other markets for pharmeceuticals, cell phone usage, air conditioners, there will one day have to be an out cry here. Most American consumers are woefully ignorant of this. Most American consumers do not question corporate policies that are reeming the American consumer right up their asses. Willfully and calculated.

[Ibon]

On demand gas water heaters. I installed them here in Panama to supplement our energy demands that our hydro cant meet. These on demand gas heaters cost me $ 169. Go ahead and try to find one in the US for under a $ 1000

Just another example.

[hvacman]

Ibon - could you look at your outdoor unit label? Does it say it uses "R-22" refrigerant? I'm guessing it does.

One thing that makes US and EU HVAC compressorized equipment more expensive than Mexico's is the Montreal Protocol (that addressed ozone depletion). It mandated that the 1st world countries switch by 2010 to zero ozone-depleting-potential (ODP) refrigerants. R-22 is an HCFC and not zero ODP. After 2010, no new systems using R-22 could be sold domestically. The phaseout for 3rd world countries was to have started in 2013. The zero-ODP refrigerant now most commonly used in small US HVAC systems is called R-410a. This refrigerant works at a much higher pressure than R-22, uses a more complex oil formula to lubricate the compressor, and is more expensive to manufacture than R-22. Because of the higher pressures, it costs a lot more to make the components for R-410a, as they have to be pressure-tested to 500 psi rather than 250 psi. Also, the refrigeration technicians have to use special instrumentation to charge the system rated for the different chemistry and higher pressure.

I believe 3rd world countries like Mexico still can manufacture R-22 and US-based manufacturers can make R-22 equipment so long as they don't sell them in the US, or sell them "dry" for replacement use only (without any R-22 in them). That is probably what you bought - one bound for Mexico prior to 2013.

FYI, in the US, R-22 is very expensive to get. All existing R-22 equipment has to be re-charged with "recycled" R-22. No new R-22 can be used.

My point is, if my suspicion about your equipment refrigerant is true, then you did get a bargain - and there is a reason for it. Not just a marketing/sales game.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hvacman', 'I')bon - could you look at your outdoor unit label? Does it say it uses "R-22" refrigerant? I'm guessing it does.

[hvacman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'I') think Hvac is right. We should disband the EPA, and abolish all environmental regulations here in the US so that we can enjoy the same low-cost of destroying the planet that the rest of the world is able to do with comfortable ease.

Damned if we do, and damned if we don't. All i want is to have my cake, AND eat it, too! Is that too much to ask? Why does the glass always have to be half empty?

And before anyone condemns me for how i started, if i was remotely serious about what i said, i would greatly deserve your condemnation. However, i think you all know better than to take anything i say here seriously.

[Timo]

WTF??? ODP, CFC, HCFC, R-11, R-22, R2D2, CC, CO2, and GWP, it's TEOTWAWKI by REM, not ACDC! OMG!!! FUBAR!

FYI, there is a DOOM thread nearby. Just sayin'.

[onlooker]

Was watching the video and the Management spokesperson was saying that the move was needed to remain competitive and keep prices down. What did Ross Perot say about a giant sucking sound with NAFTA. This is the logical dynamics of Globalization. Companies vying with each other to out profit each other. All other matters like jobs, the environment etc. are obstacles. They have totally forgotten that they need working people to buy their products and a functioning environment to sustain the world economy. That is doom for you.

[Timo]

The first thing I thought of when I read the title of this thread was NAFTA. IMO, that's what added extreme momentum to the vast disparities in income levels here in the US. The only way we can compete with the rest of the world is to lower our own standard of living. Granted, we do live in excess, and well above our means, so that's not requisitely a bad thing, but for a few generations, we'll all see a steep decline in our means of supporting ourselves. Politically, that was a brilliant, dipshit move. Ditto with the TPP. Equality (at the lowest level) for all. Move our jobs overseas, and shift our production jobs from TVs to burgers. Good for them. Political chaos for us.

[onlooker]

They way things are going we will be lucky to get burger flipping jobs haha.

[Plantagenet]

"Anyone claiming that America's economy is in decline is peddling fantasy."

--------Barack Obama, Jan. 12, 2016.

[Lore]

That big beautiful wall will stop them!

[Sixstrings]

The carrier layoff vid went viral. From 100k views to three million now.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')he carrier layoff vid went viral. From 100k views to three million now.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'S')o six, why don't you and your buddies mandate much higher wages? Surely THAT will prevent things like this.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ') Trump that saw the video and cared. It's not like Hillary or Jeb or Marco give a flip.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ') Trump that saw the video and cared. It's not like Hillary or Jeb or Marco give a flip.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'N')ow here's a good idea, Trump said he would RAISE taxes on offshorers and LOWER taxes on companies that build in the US:

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
')Why would Obama interfere with the free capitalist market when it's working? There is no law that says they can't relocate ....

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'N')ow here's a good idea, Trump said he would RAISE taxes on offshorers and LOWER taxes on companies that build in the US: