[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'Y')our arrogance prevents you from realizing that you also have "motivated reasoning".

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'T')his desire to spin the present as worse than it is is all borne by cassandras who can't stand waiting around for doom to really set in, and so they have to try to do their mental gymnastics to convince everyone that it's worse than it really is.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'T')his desire to spin the present as worse than it is is all borne by cassandras who can't stand waiting around for doom to really set in, and so they have to try to do their mental gymnastics to convince everyone that it's worse than it really is.

[tita]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'O')f what use is conservation when supplies for our lifetime are assured?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'W')hich reality?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'Y')ou refer to ecology quite a bit, which has nothing to do with oil that I can tell, but let us take some ecologist type like Catton, and his famous book. The guy hated immigrants, he tells this entire story online about seeing brown faces in other cars when he was vacationing in Oregon, and at that point in time realized that all those brown folks breeding would be the downfall of humanity.

[tita]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')ita, does your home planet still enjoy abundant copper, tungsten, helium, phosphorus reserves? Are salmon still running in the canals? Or are you guys like seriously offworld? Avatar? Living in the Moombeams?

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') don't distinguish the thoughtless plague of unnecessary manufactured stuff from the destruction that manufacture causes.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'W')hich reality?

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'Y')ou refer to ecology quite a bit, which has nothing to do with oil that I can tell, but let us take some ecologist type like Catton, and his famous book. The guy hated immigrants, he tells this entire story online about seeing brown faces in other cars when he was vacationing in Oregon, and at that point in time realized that all those brown folks breeding would be the downfall of humanity.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'W')hich reality?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', ' ')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Care to provide a link to support that spurious claim?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', ' ')I don't ignore facts. I take issue with your conclusions.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'D')enying reality is ignoring the claims that were made for peak oil, the desire for it to happen as the OP mentioned, and the complete lack of readjustment when it turns out that peak oil meant no peak oil and lower prices.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')
Denying reality is ignoring the claims that were made for peak oil, the desire for it to happen as the OP mentioned, and the complete lack of readjustment when it turns out that peak oil meant no peak oil and lower prices.

Which all of us can enjoy, even if those or desire peak oil can't stand the idea that it was even possible, or how far off their sources of information were on the topic. Sort of like Ehrlich and how badly his knowledge about ecology did in light of human ingenuity, as it related to food production. He couldn't be bothered to learn why Malthus had gotten it wrong, so he just recycled a bad idea and was soon hung by his own petard.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')
Which reality? That based on peak oil that didn't turn out the way it was hoped for (and I do mean HOPED for, which fits in nicely with the OP), or those who didn't get it right then going for another bite at the apple?

Like right now, one of the silliest investments someone could have made was for, as an example, building a well insulated home, trading their SUV for a econoobox, buying a scooter, etc etc. Of what use is conservation when supplies for our lifetime are assured? Peak oil sold fear, some people like that, and/or just hate people in general, or the consequences of people living, or maybe they just don't like those of color, or immigrants, and peak oil WAS a great way to get rid of undesireables, never figuring it would get them as well.

You refer to ecology quite a bit, which has nothing to do with oil that I can tell, but let us take some ecologist type like Catton, and his famous book. The guy hated immigrants, he tells this entire story online about seeing brown faces in other cars when he was vacationing in Oregon, and at that point in time realized that all those brown folks breeding would be the downfall of humanity. But he probably wasn't think humanity, he was thinking "spoiled american white folks who don't want brown folks becoming legal and cluttering up our cool national parks and monuments". And then this event dovetailed nicely with first a listing of all the techno wonders of man, but now, in his lfietime, they must all stop, because of these breeding brown people.

While no one should judge him based on his racist tendencies, it does beg the question, how much of his "ecology" was really ecology, and how much of it was a rationalization for how he felt about brown people invading his country?

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('tita', '
')Such a good question! And probably the key to understand the question of the topic.

The lack of need of conservation is quite recent in human history. I'm not talking about oil, but the stuff we use everyday. In Western societies, our way of life just changed from conservative living to expensive living. My grandfather used to switch off lights when not necessary, because electricity was expensive. You had to use wood cautiously in winter, not heating too much. Furniture lasted a lifetime at least. Clothes were expensive. Travelling was expensive. Food was not always available, especially meat and cheese. And so on. The XXth century just turned this upside down, giving the freedom to move on much more easily, and on your own. Life is cheap... And the last generation, called generation Y, integrated this notion plentyfully. They just know don't know why we should be conservative. The "fears" on ecology or peak oil have no meaning to them. Why should they live on fear when we didn't.

Oil represent this way of life. By making the transport of goods and people, we turned our world into a giant market where everything is available... Cheap transport, fuel, material, whatever. So why do people are so desperate to see the end of this?

For my part, it's because I think the expensive way of life is wrong. I don't believe in the well being in materiality. Sure, it helps to have food on the table everyday, and a roof over me. But the over-consumption we live right now looks like an over-destruction of the negentropy we received from earth. Through peak oil, I hope we would give more value to the living, and less value to the cheap stuff we exchange each year at Christmas.

Of course, I'm not interested in the die-off. I fear the consequences, but I also believe in humanity.