[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Simon_R', 'I') think if he really wanted this to pass, then he should raise money for a project, and when that project is done, then so is the tax.
If he just sais .... pay me, and I promise it'll be grand, I am not sure how many people would believe him.

Personally I think he should raise money for an electrified train network, linking each state capital which you could drive trucks onto.
get that sorted then worry about other projects if this is can be carried off

Simon

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'M')y first reaction to this is just that while taxes were never raised on the super rich, there has been an ACA penalty fine passed, and healthcare costs are up, and now this new oil tax proposal. That's a tax on working and middle class.

[Sixstrings]

Tweet from Paul Ryan:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')aul RyanVerified account ‏@SpeakerRyan 19h19 hours ago
Here's my response to President Obama's new oil tax proposal.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Lol, I doubt even Bernie would touch this socialist thing with a ten foot pole.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'F')irst, you don't have to pay the penalty tax if you have a valid health plan. Second, up to several multiples of the poverty line, families can get subsized rates on ACA plans, so at least in theory, no one should need to pay the penalty.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'Y')ou sir, are the one out of touch with reality. AGW isn't the result of magic. The transportation network can't be supported by magic. Claiming any tax raises at all, no matter what, must be only on "the rich", given the proportion of income taxes the rich pay compared to everyone else is out of touch with reality. (You do have a lot of company there, from the far left). It's also delusional to act like only "the rich" engage in behavior (like fossil fuel burning) that needs to change.

[Sixstrings]

All I'm saying is what the political reality is.

And as a Democrat, I'm saying NO NEW TAXES on working and middle class -- BEFORE coming through on living wage first. And getting the economy rolling some more. It's not right to come out with a tax, without doing the other thing first.

It's not even economically sound to put any taxes on the real main street economy, when growth is sputtering as it is.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'W')hat do you mean by the poor aren't acting responsibly? They shouldn't drive to work? (a lot of working class already don't have cars anymore. That's just from bad economic times for multiple years.. no punitive tax needed..)

Bottom line, most people don't like new gas taxes. Especially in rocky economic times.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
It's not even economically sound to put any taxes on the real main street economy, when growth is sputtering as it is.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'Y')ou sir, are the one out of touch with reality. AGW isn't the result of magic. The transportation network can't be supported by magic. Claiming any tax raises at all, no matter what, must be only on "the rich", given the proportion of income taxes the rich pay compared to everyone else is out of touch with reality. (You do have a lot of company there, from the far left). It's also delusional to act like only "the rich" engage in behavior (like fossil fuel burning) that needs to change.

[SeaGypsy]

We actually pay the 45 cents plus 10% GST on the full price- a tax on a tax. This issue has copped a lot of critique since introduction of GST in the late 90's- under Howàrd- our most famous right wing PM- who also handed every taxpayer a thousand buck check, calling it a stimulus payment, bailed out no banks, in response to the GFC. This and a large infrastructure investment meant we didn't even have a recession.

The fuel tax is bipartisan, has been since inception, so it's a non issue for voters. Talk of GST spread to all consumables- including food, is happening, with bipartisan recognition that subsidy will have to apply through tax concessions & grants to low income earners & welfare recipients.

Seeing 6 frothing at the mouth over 25 cents a gallon- wow. So to fill the 20 gallon tank on a modern buzz box will cost $5 more, to drive about 500 miles- a cent a mile. Ouch. Double ouch.

Where does the money come from to fund Bernie style, Australian bipartisan normality? Tax. One way or another, Tax.
You can't hate offshoring, automated job destruction etc & expect the top few percent of earners to stick around while they pay ever increasing shares of the tax burden. Tax needs to be seen as reasonably fair to all & investment which creates employment needs to face minimum taxation to avoid increasing offshoring.

Australia spends nationally about half the total tax take directly on financial support to disadvantaged people, a vast amount every fortnight. Out of the other half they have to run everything else including the national medicare system & state hospitals.

The schism of the American left- who want to hang on to certain ideas to grim death despite those ideas flying in the face of their stated goals. Democrat when it comes to welfare, Republican when it comes to taxes, with both being draconian right by comparison to other modern countries generally & zero ability to achieve bipartisan sensible tax reform, medicare reform, education, infrastructure, etc etc. The most powerful country in the world is run by incompetent schmucks, which must be what people want right?

[C8]

1. This is definitely a tariff (which could provoke retaliation on US oil)

2. it is not a serious proposal that BO expects will pass but is PR intended to win green votes for Dems this fall (and some votes from oil states that would welcome a tariff)

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
It's not even economically sound to put any taxes on the real main street economy, when growth is sputtering as it is.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('C8', '1'). This is definitely a tariff (which could provoke retaliation on US oil)

2. it is not a serious proposal that BO expects will pass but is PR intended to win green votes for Dems this fall (and some votes from oil states that would welcome a tariff)

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')here does the money come from to fund Bernie style, Australian bipartisan normality? Tax. One way or another, Tax.

[SeaGypsy]

6 +

1- how can government fund proper decent social programs such as safety net & single payer health, without raising taxes?

2- so tax the top few percentile more. How does this support wealthy Americans staying & investing in America?

3- increase minimum wage by about double. Sort out stable welfare systems- then talk about raising taxes. Is this not classic cart before horse?


Offshoring is a huge threat to the US economy. Doubling minimum wages would simply force inflation, negating the nominal pay rise- well after the ship has sailed- in the well fared waterways to Chindea.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '1')- how can government fund proper decent social programs such as safety net & single payer health, without raising taxes?

[Sixstrings]

Consider this woman, that Bernie talked to in Iowa:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ernie Sanders Comforts Emotional Iowa Woman Struggling To Live On Minimum Wage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7abasLvwyw0

[wildbourgman]

This Obama trail balloon was never intended to really pass. If this was a serious idea Obama would have simply set it up as a tariff on imported oil and he would have possibly received some bipartisan support.

Now the democrats running for president would be crazy to even think about touching this idea.

Sixstrings, you can forget about a living wage, because we are now relegated to the kind of jobs that aren't productive enough to allow employers to pay a living wage. When the country is broke as we are and when your country and companies are addicted to the type of growth that can no longer be achieved you can't utilize government fiat to enforce regulations that will kill the patient in order to save them.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wildbourgman', 'T')his Obama trail balloon was never intended to really pass. If this was a serious idea Obama would have simply set it up as a tariff on imported oil and he would have possibly received some bipartisan support.