[onlooker]

I agree totally with what Timo is saying, the very enterprise of Civilization is parasitic. It takes more then it gives back. Which to me is a good definition. As in biology, the parasite lives off the host and does not return anything positive in fact it literally consumes the host. So with our civilization which since its inception you could say 10000 years ago when Agriculture became widespread, has been using up the photosynthesis/solar output of nature without it being balanced out. It really went into overdrive as a parasitic process with the advent of fossil fuels. So ever since we all have been in greater or lesser degrees participating in this parasitic process. The effect of which has been to usher in the 6th great mass extinction and to unravel the web of life and degrade ever more life support systems and contaminate and overuse the bounty of the Earth. All this taking from the vitality of the Earth and leaving Earth more and more withered and less able to provide for the sustenance of all living beings especially higher life forms. So I believe in the future the ultimate parasites will be any humans who dare take more than what is necessary from Nature to provide for their necessities

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', ' ') So I believe in the future the ultimate parasites will be any humans who dare take more than what is necessary from Nature to provide for their necessities

[onlooker]

OS, I am talking about the further off future after the collapse when it will be quite clear what are necessities and what are luxuries.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I') agree totally with what Timo is saying, the very enterprise of Civilization is parasitic. It takes more then it gives back.

[onlooker]

Exactly Ennui. Which is why I try not to judge what anybody is doing or not relative to the future. It does irk me to hear organizations like 350.org and other Greenie NGO's constantly pushing the message if we just use wind or do this or that. This is because deep down I feel that worldwide civilization is doomed and also because I feel they are modern day snake oil salespersons taking advantage of many still gullible and ignorant people who still do not have a clue. So I think this message should be heard loud and clear in the hope that maybe it at least prepares people and their progeny for a much different type world.

[Timo]

Hang on, Folks! For those of you who got the gist of what I was suggesting about social parasites and civilization, slow down! I did not say that social parasites cannot achieve an equilibrium within their civilizations relative to the environment of their civilization. Quite obviously, only a very small handful of very remote, primitive cultures have managed to achieve this equilibrium, and the rest of us are doing everything we can to ruin their success. As for more modern, progressive civilizations, just look at any history book to discover that the "rest of us" haven't yet come close to any pretense of equilibrium. I doubt we ever will, but theoretically, at least, it is possible.

At least is would be if we weren't human.