[SeaGypsy]

Anyone tries forcing me to participate in anything is looking for a fight. My wife's Baptist pastor is finding that out the hard way right about now.

[Cog]

A proper dunking would do you a lot of good. Having conducted one myself, I consider myself an expert baptizer. Nearly hit my daughter's head on the bottom of the baptistery. It might be necessary to hold you down a good 30 seconds to make sure it works. Get it done and rise from the watery deep into everlasting glory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSif77IVQdY

[Ibon]

Let's go down the river and pray

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qw6Hon013E

[SeaGypsy]

I got baptised Eastern Orthodox on the first of July 1995, don't believe in multiple baptisms, thanks for the offer anyhow Cog

Ibon, Oh Brother, where art though is probably my favorite movie ever, as much for the Soggy Bottom Boys music as the screenplay.

[Timo]

I know i've said this before, but here goes again:

"And God created man in his own image."

Yep. You're so vain. You probably think that God looks just like you. Christians are the self-appointed idols of God.

God looks like me. God thinks like me. Just do what i say because God and me are bffs. I know what he's thinking, and i know what God wants, so give all earthly powers to me. I speak for God. Just elect me President, and you'll see just how godly i am. I'll smite all of our enemies. That's the Christian way.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'I') know i've said this before, but here goes again:

"And God created man in his own image."

Yep. You're so vain. You probably think that God looks just like you. Christians are the self-appointed idols of God.

God looks like me. God thinks like me. Just do what i say because God and me are bffs. I know what he's thinking, and i know what God wants, so give all earthly powers to me. I speak for God. Just elect me President, and you'll see just how godly i am. I'll smite all of our enemies. That's the Christian way.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') got baptised Eastern Orthodox on the first of July 1995, don't believe in multiple baptisms, thanks for the offer anyhow Cog

Ibon, Oh Brother, where art though is probably my favorite movie ever, as much for the Soggy Bottom Boys music as the screenplay.

[Timo]

Heee-heee! Thank you Cog. You are absolutely right. I'm not religious, and i'm damned proud of that fact. And, oh my! My dad is/was even a minister!!! No worries, though. He came around the embracing reality, too.

All that said, i feel well enough with who i am without embracing the need to bash others for their beliefs. To each his own. Live and let live. Turn the other cheek. Judge not, and all that other Christian stuff. Religion does serve a useful, viable and tangible purpose in the world. My opinion of religion, though, is that those benefits are limited to this world, and do not extend into any other afterlife. This life here on earth is all we get, and for that, i'm finitely grateful. Eternal life just really doesn't sound that appealing to me, but maybe i'm basing that opinion what i'm witnessing of the world and universe here in this life. More often than not, i find my self thinking if there was a god, WTF was he thinking?!? Intelligent design? Really? In fact, every four years in this country, i grow more and more convinced that there is, indeed, no god at all.

Back to the original question of the thread, though, ultra-conservative political ideology is proving itself to be a very powerful religion. If they manage to make it through to any sort of afterlife, i sure as hell don't want to be there with them.

[Timo]

http://bibviz.com/
Well worth some of your time to read.

[Oneaboveall]

The irony is that I never really started questioning religion until I went to a catholic high school (from 1988-92). It wasn't really the priests or nuns who made me start questioning things (though some were really authoritarian). They at least tried to live their according to their beliefs and they also couldn't stand Falwell, the Moral Majority, or others of that ilk. It was that the kids I went to school with were some of the nastiest people I ever had the displeasure of dealing with. The hypocrisy just killed it for me. I should also mention the religion teacher I had freshman year. He was really self-righteous and just grated on me. In another ironic twist, he was one of the people who fostered my interest in punk rock music. When we had a lesson on the evils of contemporary music, he would go on about how evil the Sex Pistols were (this was in 1989. the Pistols broke up in 1978. Way to stay current). If anything, he made them seem more appealing.

In my life, I've also found that some of the biggest troublemakers I've met are people who claim to be the biggest Christians. When I was teaching in Newark, there was one girl who was constantly instigating crap. Conversely, she was so active in her church that when we had a parental conference, her mother and her minister came in.

I could get into other stuff, but I think this article I read yesterday sums things up very well:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')’ve always thought that I was a Christian.

I’ve simply assumed that since I believed myself to be and strived to be, that this was enough. Though I’ve devoted my days to emulating Jesus and to reflecting his character in the world, this seems to have been a woefully errant path leading me far afield of righteousness.

Over recent years I’ve spent countless hours debating with those who contest my claims of faith; self-professed believers who debate my authenticity, my theology, my conduct, my motivations. They make dire assessments of both my moral worth and my eternal destination, chastising and condemning with great conviction.

It’s difficult to quantify just how much time and energy and mental bandwidth I’ve expended attempting to justify inclusion in their heavily fortified faith fraternity and to prove my personal spirituality valid and genuine in their eyes.

But these days I’m looking at what alleges to be Christianity in my country and I’m now almost certain that I was wrong about myself all along.

Maybe I’m not a Christian after all...

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', ' ')When we had a lesson on the evils of contemporary music, he would go on about how evil the Sex Pistols were (this was in 1989. the Pistols broke up in 1978. Way to stay current). If anything, he made them seem more appealing.

[Cog]

If you have one Christian, you have met one Christian. Just like all doomers have different flavors, so do Christians.

[Cog]

Christianity, as many have been taught, is a prison. But in reality it is freedom.

Romans 8:1-2
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

[Oneaboveall]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', ' ')When we had a lesson on the evils of contemporary music, he would go on about how evil the Sex Pistols were (this was in 1989. the Pistols broke up in 1978. Way to stay current). If anything, he made them seem more appealing.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') got baptised Eastern Orthodox on the first of July 1995, don't believe in multiple baptisms, thanks for the offer anyhow Cog

Ibon, Oh Brother, where art though is probably my favorite movie ever, as much for the Soggy Bottom Boys music as the screenplay.

[Cog]

@Seagypsy

You sound, from this and other things I have seen you post, as a seeker of truth. A spiritual person but not a religious one. Would that be a fair assessment?

[SeaGypsy]

The truth (not religion) shall set us free. Jesus said he came to set us free, his burden is light. The life, the truth & the way, seek & you shall find etc. I am religious only in the sense that I do find that sometimes, just sometimes, shared acknowledgement of the sacred brings profound, inexplicable closeness between folks. I'm spiritual in the sense I don't believe in a material cause for the Universe as it is & I find humanity's attempts at finding the cause sometimes produce answers which make sense on a level deeper than the rational mind. I am Christian in the sense that I find the book of Acts & the breakaway messianic movement of John, Jesus, James & Peter one of the most profound things I have ever read about & felt a connection to. I am as much a sinner as the next bloke & have as much need of redemption. I find being part of various churches & temples both challenging & fulfilling, not perfect, but at least trying to reach for profound cosmic truth in ways not found in materialist dialectics.

[Cog]

As a person raised to be a Christian from an infant, then going on a journey that involved being an atheist for 12 years, and now back to being a Christian again, I learned a few things along the way. There are many truths we can learn from a study of philosophy, other religions like Buddhism, Hinduism, and yes even Islam. The Jesus quote of "Doing unto others as you would have them do to you" is a basic tenet of human experience and is somewhat universally held regardless of religious beliefs or lack thereof. It plain just makes sense for us humans.

But for me, I can't simply embrace and pick and choose sayings of Jesus I prefer, without adopting all of them. If I try that, I make Christ out to be a liar and fraud. Here is one that causes people a lot of heartburn who like most of what Jesus taught but are not followers of him. "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me". The implications of that statement are somewhat profound. He is saying that there is a path to the exclusion of all other paths. Without being a follower of Christ, you can not be with the Father. I can learn useful things from philosophy and other religions. Truth is somewhat universal. But I can not reach my goals without putting on Christ.

Enough preaching on my part.

[SeaGypsy]

The father in the case of the Old Testament guy & his Prophets of genocide, slavery & mutilation, isn't someone I want to be with. I think the Jews went totally bonkers by the time JC was around & the line you quote was directed at them, in similar to his declarations on the Synagogue as market place & exclusivity of Baptism by Pharisees, his preference of the eater of locusts & wild honey as master teacher. I don't think he was speaking generally to mankind deliberately, but in context. The Universality of the message is almost by accident. His job was to rewrite the message of YHVH, to take it from the tribal to the Universal. I believe he largely succeeded in this message, as people of all faiths & none tend to have a sense of awe & reverence towards the man & the life he lived. There is still a long way to go though or there would no longer be any war, evil leaders, dishonest church folks etc. I don't believe everything in the Bible & I got a lot out of reading the Nag Hamadi scrolls for example of challenging insider doctrine from the times.

[JV153]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '
')
John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”